IRC log of dig on 2006-06-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:37:19 [DIGlogger]
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topic is: Decentralized Information Group (DIG) <http://dig.csail.mit.edu/>
17:37:19 [brown.freenode.net]
Users on #dig: DIGlogger sheets djweitzner hmslydia timbl alerer lkagal evoli ryanlee yosi_s jamesdh eikeon claudiof RalphS tlr erim sandro DanC
17:37:22 [sheets]
Adam: Have tested some cases. Some tabulations don't work
17:37:22 [timbl]
agenda+ demo of constraints
17:37:36 [sheets]
Adam: There may be some bugs in tabulating. I am now working on sparql
17:37:49 [sheets]
Adam: Working on sparql->kb transforms
17:37:54 [sheets]
Tim: sparql server?
17:38:19 [sheets]
Adam: I want to use nearly the full sparql standard.
17:38:43 [sheets]
Tim: maybe just a client for other people's sparql stores?
17:39:01 [sheets]
Adam: We can attach the translation layer to anything and connect to independent people
17:39:15 [sheets]
Adam: independent people = independent services
17:39:29 [sheets]
Tim: A good milestone might be to point to a public sparql service
17:39:52 [DanC]
http://esw.w3.org/topic/DawgShows
17:40:04 [DanC]
http://sparql.org/sparql.html
17:40:08 [sheets]
DanC: "DawgShows" is an example: http://esw.w3.org/topic/DawgShows
17:40:34 [sheets]
DanC: govtrack has 10e7 triples
17:40:45 [sheets]
DanC: XMLArmyKnife also interesting
17:41:26 [sheets]
DanC: can type in zip code and do a sparql query for legislation that impacts you
17:41:40 [sheets]
Jim: fixed horrible not loading triples in map bug
17:42:00 [sheets]
Jim: implemented thumbnail view in map -- a bad hack, used filetype extensions
17:42:05 [DanC]
the zip code thing was an idea/wish. It's doable in theory. In practice, XMLArmyKnife just has a bunch of data and a SPARQL service
17:42:22 [timbl]
agenda+ rdfs for finding what an image is
17:42:39 [sheets]
Jim: I should rewrite this to use RDF filetype data. We should talk about view interrelations.
17:42:45 [DanC]
http://xmlarmyknife.org/
17:43:14 [sheets]
Tim: one of our primary objectives is to use web architecture correctly
17:43:31 [sheets]
Tim: I will be publically flogged if we use filename extensions
17:43:50 [DanC]
http://xmlarmyknife.org/docs/rdf/sparql/
17:43:50 [sheets]
Tim: we should definitely use the metadata
17:44:05 [sheets]
Jim: there are some limitations to this approach -- need rdfs
17:44:24 [sheets]
Jim: can open info bubble entries into new outline view
17:44:40 [sheets]
Tim: same window?
17:45:15 [sheets]
Jim: we can make it a different window. We need to rewrite some code but it's doable. Let's think about UI concerns.
17:45:36 [sheets]
Adam: we would have to open a new tabulator instance
17:46:00 [sheets]
Tim: you can use DOM to remote-control other windows
17:46:14 [sheets]
Tim: we should clean up global variables
17:46:30 [sheets]
Adam, Joyce: myquery shouldn't be a global variable!
17:46:34 [sheets]
Tim: refactor!
17:46:51 [sheets]
Jim: isn't there a memory constraint to doing this
17:46:55 [sheets]
Tim: share the kb
17:47:16 [sheets]
Tim: a map should be able to aggregate multiple queries. Maps should be singleton?
17:47:50 [sheets]
Jim: rewriting map view to be standalone class
17:48:16 [sheets]
Jim: making this modular so we can aggregate and reuse this -- leave it up to a later developer
17:48:38 [timbl]
sheets:
17:48:49 [DanC]
ScribeNick: timbl
17:48:53 [timbl]
... i hve nearly finished the new parser fopr RDF/XML.
17:49:10 [timbl]
... Have run through 20 odd test sets, each of whgich is 1..20 rdf and NT files.
17:49:28 [timbl]
.. It works for most. The difficulties are in the comparnf of te output files...
17:49:44 [timbl]
I have been used hacked up code in [missed]
17:49:55 [timbl]
DanC: Ca you get the results onto a disk?
17:50:28 [timbl]
sheets: Currently I loop dearching for a match for each triple, but i can't do bnodes.
17:50:40 [DanC]
tim, does the tabulator have a graph comparison function yet?
17:50:43 [timbl]
... It passes all of the major tests, but collections will need changes to thhe store.
17:53:59 [timbl]
... I tried to get unicode unescapingg o be done by jscript, but couldn't
17:54:30 [DanC]
(you could just leave the strings in their literal form, for the purposes of comparison)
17:54:41 [timbl]
.. The two failing test cases rae XML serialization and blank node ids not matching up
17:54:50 [timbl]
danc: COuld test that with query
17:55:14 [timbl]
sheets: I fixed the unicode escapes with regexp
17:55:23 [timbl]
danc: Just leave them unescaped.
17:55:38 [timbl]
sheets ... don't need to , unscaping done.
17:56:36 [sheets]
Tim: Norm Walsh's foaf fails
17:56:46 [DanC]
timbl: norm walsh's foaf file fails with the old RDF/XML .js parser
17:57:42 [timbl]
Reseacrh Science Institute
17:58:03 [timbl]
... calendaring and paper generation and mailing lists ... some data will end up in DF
17:58:13 [timbl]
s/D/RD
17:58:28 [DanC]
re agendas in N3, see http://esw.w3.org/topic/MeetingRecords
18:03:08 [sheets]
Tim: SQL data for dbview->tabulator?
18:03:14 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2006/05/dbview/
18:03:21 [sheets]
sheets: I have a music library in postgres
18:03:30 [sheets]
Tim: sounds good, put it in DIG space
18:03:34 [timbl]
----------------------
18:03:37 [DanC]
timbl: don't think I committed the dbview overview thing at all
18:03:49 [DanC]
agenda = Calendar walkthru, DIG channel privacy, Parser walkthru, blanknodes, good/needed datasets
18:04:03 [sheets]
DanC: I have been working towards turtle or n3 parser in js
18:04:03 [timbl]
grep agenda+ <>
18:04:19 [timbl]
check.py
18:04:26 [sheets]
DanC: check.py hardening?
18:05:11 [sheets]
DanC: i have n3 grammar in rdf. parsed grammar and got json data structure. Can do lexical analysis now.
18:05:22 [sheets]
Tim: no branching table?
18:05:37 [sheets]
DanC: not yet. I keep reproducing your (Tim) work
18:05:39 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/grammar/notation3.bnf http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/grammar/notation3.json etc.
18:05:53 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/grammar/Makefile
18:06:06 [sheets]
Tim: first on the agenda: calendar demo
18:06:18 [timbl]
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/tab
18:06:19 [sheets]
Joyce: try on your computer
18:06:34 [DanC]
I also have some stuff in dig-svn/2005/ajar/ajaw/grammar, but I haven't checked it in :-/
18:06:35 [sheets]
Joyce: try the TAGMobile roadtrip
18:07:09 [sheets]
Tim: sorry about the GPS data
18:07:58 [sheets]
DanC: we need a link to it from DIG
18:08:04 [sheets]
Jim: it's pretty high on google
18:08:15 [sheets]
Tim: we should link from DIG
18:08:23 [DanC]
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/tab.html
18:08:30 [sheets]
Joyce: try ColorPicture and use date or date-time
18:08:33 [timbl]
open "TAGmobile..."
18:08:44 [timbl]
1. openm tabulator proect
18:08:51 [timbl]
2. open testdataset: tagmobile
18:09:14 [timbl]
3. focus on Colour picture
18:10:11 [timbl]
open http://www.w3.org/2004/lambda/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/2006/06/12/IMG_1758.JPG
18:10:15 [timbl]
typeexpandloadedColorPicture
18:12:57 [sheets]
DanC: multiple select on *nix machine/x windows?
18:13:09 [sheets]
Tim, Joyce, sheets, Jim: we don't know but it's fixable
18:13:09 [timbl]
select datetime OR date
18:13:13 [timbl]
hit 'calendar
18:13:15 [timbl]
''
18:13:23 [timbl]
... wait.
18:13:47 [sheets]
Tim: we're looking up images
18:15:06 [sheets]
Joyce: not getting data when you don't refocus seems wrong
18:15:19 [sheets]
Tim: it's not a bug. "mentions" is not a real link
18:15:27 [sheets]
Joyce: it looks like a real link
18:15:46 [sheets]
Tim: you want to narrow the search so refocus is a good idea
18:17:14 [sheets]
Joyce: i don't like the stretch... calendar can get huge
18:17:31 [sheets]
Tim: stretch is good (calendar view stretch)
18:17:51 [sheets]
Joyce: maybe i will add minimize and maximize
18:18:11 [sheets]
DanC: labels on pictures are not cheap?
18:18:14 [sheets]
Tim: not cheap
18:18:46 [sheets]
Tim: how to handle thumbnails is something to think about -- rdf? exif?
18:18:51 [DanC]
labels on *these* pictures, I mean.
18:19:03 [sheets]
Joyce: Jim loads the full picture
18:19:13 [sheets]
Jim: I might be able to make it only load the image on event bubble opening
18:19:22 [sheets]
DanC: let's use coordination group data
18:19:59 [sheets]
Tim: there is no reverse of "mentions"
18:20:09 [sheets]
Tim: that's why this may be a problem
18:20:44 [sheets]
Tim: there's a whole section in the About document about inverting the outline view
18:20:59 [sheets]
Tim: take the tree and pick it up by a different root
18:21:28 [sheets]
DanC: I refocussed on the coord. group calendar
18:22:30 [sheets]
DanC: I get nothing when i try to calendarize the thing of type vcalendar
18:22:51 [sheets]
Joyce: when I only know the end of an event, I give up
18:23:18 [sheets]
Tim: we should use RDFS to figure out how to handle this data too (as well as the images)
18:24:23 [sheets]
DanC: i don't think that the calendar and the map use the same query paradigm
18:24:33 [sheets]
Jim: you can use basedNear or lat/long
18:24:40 [sheets]
Tim: we should think about consistent UI
18:25:07 [sheets]
Tim: we should visually tag the properties that are viewable with our views
18:26:02 [sheets]
DanC: we need to justify this with the internet
18:26:13 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/rfc2445.html
18:26:29 [sheets]
DanC: (the way to handle the calendar data and map data selection UI)
18:26:44 [DanC]
dtend http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/rfc2445.html#sec4.8.2.2
18:27:36 [sheets]
Tim: iconify views next to viewable data
18:27:58 [sheets]
Tim: the multiple selection interface is hard for Mac people
18:28:05 [sheets]
Tim: piecemeal queries may be better
18:28:13 [sheets]
Adam: Mac users are a minority
18:28:33 [sheets]
Tim: Adam, you think about the power user. We should think of a range.
18:28:47 [sheets]
Adam: I don't think that this is really useable to a wide range of people
18:29:10 [sheets]
Tim: this is proof-of-concept. UI is a greater concern than technical boundaries
18:29:24 [sheets]
Adam: too many tricks like "mentions"
18:29:49 [sheets]
Tim: we should smooth things like that out. Agendize making mentions work logically
18:30:14 [sheets]
Tim: "mentions" is totally in the view
18:30:30 [sheets]
Tim: "mentions" is due to type
18:30:51 [sheets]
Tim: this is probably not a good way to do this... too much data in some cases
18:30:59 [sheets]
Adam: or maybe we should ditch mentions
18:31:15 [sheets]
Tim: you have no way of bootstrapping a file then -- it's a kludge
18:31:40 [sheets]
Tim: you could do some kind of serialization to get similar functionality?
18:32:20 [sheets]
Tim: we could make a subject list to bootstrap a file
18:32:50 [sheets]
djweitzner: I'm looking for my power adaptor
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18:33:32 [sheets]
Jim: how do we want view data selection to work?
18:33:57 [DanC]
the stuff about dtend default is in http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/rfc2445.html#sec6 ; sort of a wooly part of the spec. In practice, the lack of a dtend is just like when somebody says "the meeting is at 2pm". It ends some time later.
18:34:06 [sheets]
Jim: should we use selections in the iconic view creation?
18:34:49 [sheets]
Tim: if selection then use those data. if not, then just graph point. Aggregate on one map. One day in another window.
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18:35:26 [DanC]
dtstart is required, evoli
18:35:38 [DanC]
if you only have dtend, you cry foul ;-)
18:35:39 [sheets]
Tim: there should be a big global symbol for the map
18:35:45 [evoli]
DanC: alright then!
18:36:23 [sheets]
Jim: if you break the map out into a separate window and then you wanted to send more data to that map... i was getting tripped up
18:36:42 [DanC]
a wish: a trip view, which is a slider + a map. When you move the slider, you see where the trip passenger is
18:36:52 [sheets]
Jim: I was trying to figure out how to code so the UI is the most intuitive for map viewing
18:37:03 [evoli]
slider: time ?
18:38:13 [sheets]
Jim: we might be able to use a scrollbar with event registrations... i think the map API can support it
18:38:24 [sheets]
Tim: time slider is post release
18:39:15 [sheets]
Tim: calendar walkthru: check!
18:39:25 [DanC]
agenda = DIG channel privacy, Parser walkthru, blanknodes, good/neededdatasets
18:39:49 [sheets]
Tim: channel privacy?
18:39:55 [sheets]
Tim: logged but group only?
18:40:03 [sheets]
DanC: that is my preference
18:40:18 [sheets]
DanC: passwords are hard. I can't get at the mail archives.
18:40:43 [sheets]
Tim: high priority phone call
18:40:55 [eikeon]
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18:40:57 [jamesdh]
sheets: snappy scribe commentary
18:41:26 [sheets]
Tim: my car is [missed]
18:41:56 [sheets]
Tim: #swig is a good place to discuss interesting web tech
18:42:23 [sheets]
Tim: URIs get blogged
18:42:58 [sheets]
Tim: annotations about URIs are helpful
18:43:26 [sheets]
DanC: regexes are used to chomp URIs
18:43:38 [alerer]
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18:43:52 [DanC]
http://swig.xmlhack.com/
18:44:02 [DanC]
http://swig.xmlhack.com/2006/06/21/2006-06-21.html#1150909926.146386
18:44:15 [sheets]
Tim: parser walkthru?
18:45:14 [sheets]
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/rdf/rdfparser.js
18:46:59 [DanC]
why is store both a param and an instance variable?
18:52:06 [DanC]
dom.getAttributeNodeNS(RDFParser.ns.RDF,"about") <- oh, the DOM API is ugly!
18:54:02 [DanC]
connolly@dirk:~/dig-svn/2005/ajar/ajaw$ firefox test/jsunit/testRunner.html
18:55:40 [DanC]
~/dig-svn/2005/ajar/ajaw$ ls test/rdf-tests/horst*
18:55:41 [DanC]
test001.rdf test002.rdf test003.rdf test004.rdf
18:58:32 [DanC]
walking thru jsunit stuff
18:59:03 [sheets]
http://www.w3.org/2000/10/rdf-tests/rdfcore/
19:00:47 [DanC]
and open $DIG/2005/ajar/ajaw/test/jsunit/testRunner.html
19:01:05 [DanC]
and in there, browse to $DIG/2005/ajar/ajaw/test/rdf/rdfparser.test.html
19:02:16 [DanC]
for me, that's /home/connolly/dig-svn/2005/ajar/ajaw/test/rdf/rdfparser.test.html
19:03:02 [DanC]
I get Runs: 21 Errors: 0 Failures: 2
19:07:12 [DanC]
FYI, what we just went over is in mail that I sent:
19:07:12 [DanC]
From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
19:07:12 [DanC]
To: Tabulator team <tabulator@csail.mit.edu>
19:07:12 [DanC]
Subject: RDF/XML parser, jsunit progress
19:07:13 [DanC]
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:18:05 -0500
19:07:33 [DanC]
and
19:07:34 [DanC]
From: David Sheets <dsheets@mit.edu>
19:07:34 [DanC]
To: tabulator@csail.mit.edu
19:07:34 [DanC]
Subject: [Tabulator] Parser Update
19:07:34 [DanC]
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:07:32 -0400 (02:07 CDT)
19:11:30 [DanC]
agenda = blanknodes
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19:16:19 [DanC]
"Subject: [Tabulator] Proposal for joint SwapMe-Tabulator-TAMI meeting 17 July"
19:17:37 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to have another tabulator meeting 6 July 1pET
19:18:00 [DanC]
so RESOLVED
19:18:15 [timbl]
____________________________________ Adjouned
19:19:56 [DanC]
no, I think the IRC log suffices...
19:20:05 [DanC]
... I'll be happy if sheets mails a copy to tabulator-team
19:20:11 [sheets]
will do
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Danny ?
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