IRC log of dig on 2006-08-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

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05:17:29 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi all. We just experienced a problem with a main rotation server. It's out of contact and has been removed from rotation. The users should slowly return on other servers. Apologies for the difficulties, and thank you for using freenode!

05:19:16 [DanC]

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14:02:36 [harveyj]

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14:03:05 [harveyj]

is there a TAMI meeting this week?

14:06:39 [harveyj]

DanC, fyi, http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/users/harveyj/dump.rdf is an xml-rdf dump of the scheme TMS after the reasoning is done

14:08:03 [harveyj]

tabulator loads it, but the data/queries will need some thought before it displays useful output

14:43:07 [DanC]

cwm trips over this: <ded:arrest-item-justified rdf:datatype="xsd:Boolean">

14:43:25 [DanC]

you have to spell out xsd:Boolean longhand (or use XML entity shortcuts)

14:46:55 [harveyj]

weird... because cwm output that file

14:47:10 [harveyj]

i dumped everything into ntriples and then processed it with cwm

14:54:27 [DanC]

interesting... I noticed some cwm-isms in it.

14:54:38 [claudiof]

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14:54:57 [DanC]

looks like cwm has a check on datatype URIs when it's parsing RDF/XML that it doesn't do when parsing ntriples.

14:55:38 [DanC]

can you show me the n-triples line with xsd:Boolean in it, harveyj ? I want to include it in a bug report

14:56:04 [harveyj]

sure, one minute

14:56:26 [harveyj]

it may be that my input is bad

14:57:41 [harveyj]

<http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/2006/07/s3#arrest-1> <http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/cph/v2/deduce#arrest-item-justified> "false"^^<xsd:Boolean> .

14:59:57 [DanC]

take the <> off the xsd:Boolean

15:00:11 [DanC]

but in any case, cwm shouldn't do what it does

15:06:15 [harveyj]

cool

15:08:49 [DanC]

is it easy for you to spin a new dump.rdf , harveyj ?

15:09:27 [claudiof]

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15:09:41 [harveyj]

with the brackets removed from the datatypes?

15:12:19 [DanC]

well, just that one

15:12:25 [DanC]

the other datatypes look ok

15:12:37 [harveyj]

ok

15:14:43 [harveyj]

http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/users/harveyj/dump-edit.nt

15:14:57 [harveyj]

all i did was remove the brackets from around xsd:boolean in that location

15:17:14 [DanC]

swap.notation3.BadSyntax: Line 13 of <http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/users/harveyj/dump-edit.nt>: Bad syntax (Prefix xsd not bound) at ^ in:

15:17:14 [DanC]

"....mit.edu/TAMI/cph/v2/deduce#arrest-item-justified> "false"^^^xsd:Boolean .

15:17:25 [DanC]

Prefix xsd not bound

15:18:19 [DanC]

so either declare the xsd: prefix or spell out <http://...#Boolean> longhand

15:18:35 [harveyj]

sure

15:20:22 [harveyj]

replaced with <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#boolean>

15:20:55 [DanC]

ok, cwm parses it now...

15:21:11 [DanC]

( backg:ct-criminal-law-enforcement

15:21:11 [DanC]

backg:ct-intelligence )

15:21:11 [DanC]

a <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#List> .

15:21:25 [DanC]

odd... that's axiomatically true. I wonder why it's in there.

15:22:29 [DanC]

hmm... http://niem.gov/niem/universal/0.3#locationCityName ... are we squatting in niem.gov's URI space?

15:22:44 [DanC]

I get a 404 there

15:23:06 [harveyj]

i guess so, the names predate me :)

15:25:13 [DanC]

I see a bunch of ded:item-antecedents stuff; is that the TMS structure?

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15:26:18 [DanC]

404 @ http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/cph/v2/deduce

15:28:41 [harveyj]

yeah, that's all TMS output

15:32:49 [timbl]

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15:39:43 [DanC]

hi tim

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16:07:27 [timbl]

Hi Danc

16:07:34 [timbl]

I am reveiwing the tabulator paper

16:07:55 [DanC]

ah. good. I was hoping you would.

16:08:21 [DanC]

that is: I was hoping you would edit the @@CLARIFY bits. I reviewed lk's changes, and they all look OK to me

16:08:49 [DanC]

I guess I still haven't tried to read the thing top-to-bottom

16:11:08 [timbl]

I am going top to bottom.

16:11:15 [timbl]

I have done one @@CLARIFY point

16:42:24 [claudiof]

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16:46:52 [timbl]

danc? What is the correct content type for xhtml? application/xhtml+xml?

16:47:20 [DanC]

I prefer text/html

16:47:41 [DanC]

but I think application/xhtml+xml is also registered

16:48:22 [timbl]

k

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17:47:43 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi all. If you've been disconnected by a kiddie using the DC C exploit, please reconnect to freenode using port 8001, instead of the default port (6667). Thanks.

17:53:12 [timbl]

7. Section 3.2

17:53:13 [timbl]

s/ In the analysis mode, the user can select certain fields to define a pattern,/

17:53:13 [timbl]

To move to analysis mode, the user can select certain fields (arcs) to define a pattern,/

17:53:14 [timbl]

8. s/From any table cell/To switch back, from any table cell/

17:53:14 [timbl]

SECTION 3.3

17:53:16 [timbl]

9. In / circle-and-arrow diagrams[6], RDFAuthor, etc./

17:53:16 [timbl]

missing ref for RDFAuthor. The [6] is OK for Isaviz.

17:53:17 [timbl]

10. S/This gives one feel/This gives one a feel/

17:53:19 [timbl]

11. Link for the Foafnaut or how/why diagrams? Maybe I just don't see the link.

17:53:21 [timbl]

Foafnaut could do with a ref anyway.

17:53:23 [timbl]

12. s/The outliner displays links in both directions

17:53:25 [timbl]

must treat forward and backward links wit equal stature.

17:53:27 [timbl]

The outliner therefore displays links in both directions/

17:53:29 [timbl]

SECTION 3.4

17:53:31 [timbl]

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17:56:27 [timbl]

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18:03:21 [tlr]

timbl, 19:53 [freenode] -!- timbl [n=timbl@m615e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Excess Flood]

18:03:33 [tlr]

looks like freenode didn't like the speed at which you were pasting stuff

18:03:51 [tlr]

(or typing, for that matter)

18:04:14 [timbl]

Ok, well, I was trying to use it as an alternativ to email

18:04:31 [jambo]

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18:04:33 [timbl]

as email won't work over a tunnel over GPRS.

18:04:40 [DanC]

how about just checking in your changes directly, timbl? oh. GPRS.

18:04:41 [timbl]

Thanks for the explanation tlr.

18:05:01 [timbl]

Strangely, I can chec in a comment file.

18:05:01 [DanC]

maybe a pastebin?

18:05:19 [timbl]

http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2006/Papers/SWUI06/tbl-comments.txt

18:05:42 [timbl]

i don't know why sending mail is more difficult - both happen over ssh

18:05:48 [DanC]

lkagal, are you getting this? do you see http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2006/Papers/SWUI06/tbl-comments.txt ?

18:06:12 [timbl]

Me too,

18:06:17 [timbl]

Update to 2029

18:06:38 [DanC]

tbl-cmments.txt

18:06:40 [timbl]

Maybe svn is faster as the web update is not assync.

18:06:52 [DanC]

http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2006/Papers/SWUI06/tbl-cmments.txt

18:06:59 [timbl]

So I have offloaded my comments - phew. I can ocntinue down the file

18:07:10 [lkagal]

DanC, yes, I'm changing the paper according to your comments in IRC

18:07:32 [DanC]

cool. (I assume you mean: according to timbl's comments)

18:07:52 [timbl]

ah, ooops yes typo in first url

18:14:01 [jambo]

lkagal, if you could throw that in, it would be nice :P

18:14:32 [lkagal]

jambo, please could you send me your full name.

18:18:45 [lkagal]

timbl, please could you send me a ref to how/why diagrams

18:21:42 [DanC]

a ref to how/why diagrams... is there such a thing? I thought they were sorta of a timbl-ism

18:23:54 [DanC]

hmm... hg has this nifty graphical 'hg view' thingy... ah... I see svn-workbench. not quite as nice as hg view, but it seems to work. It's written in python but use X-windows stuff.

18:25:39 [DanC]

"Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and other unix platforms are supported" -- http://pysvn.tigris.org/

18:37:30 [lkagal]

DanC, could you check the GRDDL ref in the paper ?

18:37:36 [jambo]

DanC, you mean the image of the map view?

18:37:40 [jambo]

in the paper?

18:37:53 [lkagal]

timbl, I just committed your changes.

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19:17:05 [DanC]

yes, jambo, that one

19:18:19 [jambo]

I guess your worry is about clipping the Google logo in the bottom right?

19:18:33 [jambo]

err bottom left rather

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19:42:37 [timbl]

lkagal, did you commit the pdf too?

19:52:03 [timbl]

Oh, I see, I though the "clarify" meant "clarify why the paltform is commonlt avalable"

19:52:04 [timbl]

Maybe we should put this one last, but would this work better:

19:52:04 [timbl]

- To make available to researchers and developers an in-browser

19:52:04 [timbl]

software platform for new and derived RDF-based applications.

19:52:04 [timbl]

Note we have at least two users of the platform. That we know of. :)

19:52:17 [timbl]

re the bit: "To make RDF access easy on a platform which is open to everyone

19:52:18 [timbl]

with a website (or, hopefully, a computer) program in.

19:52:18 [timbl]

The scripting environment within a typical web browser

19:52:18 [timbl]

provides a programming language [javasrcipt 9],

19:52:18 [timbl]

network accesses and a powerful user interface [HTML DOM].

19:52:19 [timbl]

Developers pushing the bounds of web technology tend to

19:52:21 [timbl]

be conversant with this platform"

19:54:08 [timbl]

lkagal?

19:54:11 [timbl]

I can't use email

19:55:58 [timbl]

Ok for me to use this channel?

19:56:02 [timbl]

__________

19:58:55 [timbl]

4.2 Add a first paragraph: The Tabulator automatically and recursively loads the ontology file for any term used as a predicate or type (object of rdf:type), recursively ("otological closure").

19:59:00 [timbl]

lalana?

19:59:27 [timbl]

_______

19:59:32 [timbl]

Remove all of: (Assuming that the results of early

19:59:33 [timbl]

hypertext experiments hold [@@ ref ] (@@CLARIFY), a response of over 100ms

19:59:33 [timbl]

will make a user disinclined to follow a hypertext link, and impede his ability to

19:59:33 [timbl]

solve problems)

19:59:35 [timbl]

------

20:03:46 [lkagal]

Yes timbl, please go ahead and use this channel.

20:05:47 [lkagal]

timbl, do you want the sentence to be added to the new 4.2 (what to dereference) ?

20:07:17 [timbl]

I am trying an edit in SVN space.

20:08:02 [timbl]

new 4.2, yes.

20:08:13 [timbl]

hold on though, i am editing inference

20:08:33 [lkagal]

Oops, just committed ...

20:10:58 [timbl]

Darn ... its been tidied

20:11:32 [timbl]

ok though ... no conflict where i was editing

20:12:09 [timbl]

The glossary is commented out?

20:13:30 [timbl]

why can't I commit after I have edited gthe conflict?

20:13:41 [timbl]

svn: Commit failed (details follow):

20:13:41 [timbl]

svn: Aborting commit: '/devel/dig/2006/Papers/SWUI06/tab.html' remains in conflict

20:14:00 [lkagal]

Yes, I removed the glossary, it was taking too much space. We're allowed only 14 pages.

20:14:38 [timbl]

Oh, OK. We should make sure we have references for the DOM

20:14:46 [timbl]

and OWL and RDF etc

20:15:51 [tlr]

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20:16:59 [lkagal]

tim, for the commit problem, have you removed all the temp files. It doesn't allow you to commit unless you do.

20:17:38 [timbl]

I missed your last commit - thought i had it

20:21:00 [timbl]

Ok, now you cn have rev 2035.

20:21:18 [timbl]

I won't edit the source again

20:23:21 [timbl]

I also fixedL: Section 4

20:23:22 [timbl]

s/bother directions/both directions/

20:24:36 [jambo]

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20:25:37 [timbl]

Lalana, could you edit: Section 6

20:25:38 [timbl]

s//modify and exent/modify and exend/

20:26:47 [timbl]

Did you see my comment above about the software platform bit?

20:27:35 [timbl]

I think I have got to the bottom of the paper. Let me know if there other things where I haven't explained myself properly

20:28:15 [timbl]

Otherwise, I'm happy for you to ship it, as far as my review is concerned. With great thanks, again.

20:31:47 [DanC]

re "remove the temp files", you're supposed to tell svn that you resolved a conflict a la: svn resolve tab.html

20:33:28 [lkagal]

Tim, one question. Do you want me to add "The scripting environment within a typical web browser provides a programming language [javasrcipt 9], .." to the motivation section ?

20:40:03 [lkagal]

Another question Tim : To find and design new breadcrumb protocols, that is, conventions by which pointers are left and followed in the Semantic Web so as to make certain classes of problems solvable. Which class of problems are you referring to ?

20:41:46 [timbl]

A class of problem such as to fnd the answer to a given form or sparql query

20:42:32 [timbl]

Eg. We can find the answer to any sparql query which has one anchored node wiht a URI and which has liked data from gthat node.

20:43:30 [timbl]

But other classe sf query coul dbe hgandled wit diff protocols.

20:44:32 [timbl]

The sentence about "The scripting environment" isn't needded, I propsd changing that bullet completely to :

20:44:33 [timbl]

- To make available to researchers and developers an in-browser

20:44:33 [timbl]

[15:52] timbl: software platform for new and derived RDF-based applications.

20:44:59 [lkagal]

Thats what I thought. Thanks.

20:45:32 [timbl]

this log unless someone logs it

20:45:39 [timbl]

DIGlogger, pointer?

20:45:39 [timbl]

See http://dig.csail.mit.edu/irc/dig/2006-08-10#T20-45-39

20:45:47 [timbl]

that'll work.

20:45:54 [timbl]

KUTGW everyone

20:46:01 [lkagal]

Bye timbl, have fun.

20:51:25 [DanC]

evoli, are you around? did you see my msg229 in http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator/issue11 ?

21:01:40 [evoli]

I'm arround

21:02:18 [evoli]

collections are handled in the UI now

21:02:23 [evoli]

(there's a way of viewing them)

21:03:01 [evoli]

I might be confused, but I asked sheets about it during the meeting, and I thought he explained to me that collections can be queried from the store now?

21:03:49 [evoli]

(meeting being dig meeting)

21:04:26 [DanC]

collections work now? lemme try it with the data timbl suggested...

21:06:44 [DanC]

evoli, http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/test/list/nested.rdf#foo doesn't look like it works

21:06:56 [DanC]

[unknowntermtype:collection]

21:07:11 [evoli]

you're right O_O I thought I fixed *that* part.

21:07:14 [evoli]

I'll look into it.

21:08:16 [DanC]

cool. go ahead and mark issue11 in progress?

21:08:30 [evoli]

alright

21:12:05 [timbl]

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21:25:44 [evoli]

committed.

21:26:03 [evoli]

(transferring)

21:26:19 [evoli]

(fully committed!)

21:27:42 [evoli]

wups. problem

21:28:01 [evoli]

(foo increases in length each time you expand it. er.)

21:45:57 [evoli]

I removed the collection code I added, and just told it to print "spoo" whenever there WAS a collection. the ... spoo multiplies...

21:47:12 [evoli]

iiinteresting

21:48:01 [evoli]

I took out *all* the collection viewing code now. (no spoo)

21:48:10 [evoli]

and, when you add http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/test/list/nested.rdf

21:48:12 [evoli]

to the outliner

21:48:19 [evoli]

(keep clicking Add to outliner)

21:48:37 [evoli]

you will see that the ... (blank nodes) are increasing in number.

21:48:43 [evoli]

something is odd about the sources code

21:49:08 [evoli]

(other than clicking "Add to outliner" many times, you can also expand and close them in place, for the same effect"

21:49:58 [evoli]

the "..." blank nodes I'm talking about are the ones belonging to the "request" predicate

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