IRC log of dig on 2006-10-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

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11:37:10 [kornbluth.freenode.net]: topic is: DIG (http://dig.csail.mit.edu/ ) ∃ today { Tabulator release today }.
11:37:10 [kornbluth.freenode.net]: Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS tlr eikeon lkagal sandro DanC
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14:29:18 [sandro]: Dig meeting today?
14:31:04 [DanC]: hmm... my mailbox doesn't have much evidence one way or the other
14:33:03 [sandro]: very frustratinging. I'll drive to MIT if there is, but I've no reason to if there's not.
14:33:11 [sandro]: timbl, are you expecting a DIG meeting today?
14:38:26 [timbl]: I don't kno
14:38:27 [timbl]: w
14:38:39 [timbl]: Shall we?
14:55:43 [sandro]: Personally, I find it very difficult to make the W3C -vs- DIG distinction. I'm interested in making the semantic web succeed and talking about that. Sometimes DIG does things in that direction.
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14:58:35 [sandro]: timbl, are you up for a chat about Semantic Web applications, whether formally in DIG or not?
15:00:16 [timbl]: Yes
15:00:25 [timbl]: I ahve the time blocked out
15:00:46 [sandro]: okay, I'll drive in.
15:12:12 [RalphS]: Tim, does that mean you'll chair a DIG meeting? Danny is out today. I don't know if he passed the baton anywhere.
15:20:45 [timbl]: He didn't.
15:21:11 [timbl]: I will convene an ad-hoc meeting if folks would like
15:21:35 [timbl]: we have the bridge
15:22:07 [timbl]: We don't have Zakim on the channel
15:22:41 [timbl]: Ralph, could you invite Zakim?
15:22:57 [timbl]: Possile agenda items welcome in this channel.
15:23:16 [timbl]: agenda+ Semantic Web applications [sandro]
15:26:08 [timbl]: agenda+ SEC filings in RDF? Outreach to financial?
15:27:03 [DanC]: hmm... SEC filings reached timbl's radar too; I wonder how
15:27:23 [Zakim]: Zakim (n=rrs-brid@homer.w3.org) has joined #dig
15:27:43 [DanC]: agenda + Convene
15:27:50 [DanC]: agenda + Semantic Web applications [sandro]
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15:27:58 [DanC]: agenda + SEC filings in RDF? Outreach to financial? [timbl]
15:28:14 [DanC]: agenda + OWL time, prolog implementation, soundness of approach to n-ary
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15:28:56 [timbl]: Sabdro, ar eyou at home or here?
15:29:04 [timbl]: Sandro
15:30:13 [RalphS]: zakim, this is dig
15:30:13 [Zakim]: ok, RalphS; that matches DIG_weekly()11:30AM
15:30:15 [Zakim]: +MIT531
15:30:26 [RalphS]: zakim, mit531 has TimBL, Ralph
15:30:26 [Zakim]: +TimBL, Ralph; got it
15:30:48 [DanC]: DanC has changed the topic to: DIG meeting 2 Oct
15:31:13 [Zakim]: +DanC
15:31:53 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item 1
15:31:53 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Convene" taken up [from DanC]
15:31:59 [DanC]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:31:59 [Zakim]: On the phone I see MIT531, DanC
15:32:00 [Zakim]: MIT531 has TimBL, Ralph
15:32:12 [DanC]: Zakim, agenda?
15:32:13 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:32:15 [Zakim]: 1. Convene [from DanC]
15:32:17 [Zakim]: 2. Semantic Web applications [from sandro via DanC]
15:32:19 [Zakim]: 3. SEC filings in RDF? Outreach to financial? [from timbl via DanC]
15:32:20 [Zakim]: 4. OWL time, prolog implementation, soundness of approach to n-ary [from DanC]
15:32:55 [DanC]: Regrets: Danny
15:34:02 [DanC]: agenda + debrief from TimBL's trip to southampton
15:34:55 [DanC]: agenda + swapme update
15:35:17 [DanC]: agenda + utexas.edu and tabulator
15:35:40 [DanC]: agenda order is 3,4,5,6,7,2
15:35:56 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item 4
15:35:56 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "OWL time, prolog implementation, soundness of approach to n-ary" taken up [from DanC]
15:36:28 [DanC]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/t-and-s/2006Oct/0003.html
15:37:14 [DanC]: comment: duration description example seems incomplete
15:37:14 [DanC]: Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:13:38 -0500
15:37:14 [DanC]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Jun/0035 and
15:37:18 [RalphS]: zakim, Sandro just arrived in mit531
15:37:18 [Zakim]: +Sandro; got it
15:38:17 [DanC]: [[
15:38:17 [DanC]: :duration
15:38:17 [DanC]: a :DurationDescription ;
15:38:17 [DanC]: :seconds 20 ;
15:38:17 [DanC]: :hours 5 ;
15:38:18 [DanC]: :days 15 .
15:38:20 [DanC]: ]]
15:39:02 [RalphS]: DanC: if the prolog implementation decides this does not have any years then it is doing unsound reasoning
15:39:15 [DanC]: per the draft, that means P15DT5H0M20S
15:40:08 [RalphS]: DanC: I sent such a comment SWBPD WG on 29 June
15:41:12 [RalphS]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Jun/0035.html comment: duration description example seems incomplete [DanC 2006-06-29]
15:42:29 [DanC]: DanC: sandro, how about trying to run that prolog code?
15:43:58 [DanC]: agenda + labelling [timbl]
15:44:04 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item 8
15:44:04 [Zakim]: agendum 8. "labelling" taken up [from timbl via DanC]
15:44:35 [DanC]: TBL: so the content label XG is reporting out... they'll be doing RDF, perhaps via GRDDL [not sure I believe that.]
15:45:04 [DanC]: TBL: some of their properties are properties of the label and some are properties of the labelled document
15:45:53 [DanC]: ... and they've mangled it by putting both sorts of properties at the same level
15:46:10 [RalphS]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/ W3C Content Label Incubator Group
15:46:44 [RalphS]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/ W3C Content Labels; W3C Incubator Group Report Draft 0.9.2; 11 August 2006
15:47:59 [RalphS]: TimBL: the XG is implicitly doing quoting
15:48:12 [Zakim]: +Lalana_Kagal
15:49:23 [DanC]: TimBL: the labelling stuff has, effectively, rules in it
15:50:32 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item time
15:50:33 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "OWL time, prolog implementation, soundness of approach to n-ary" taken up [from DanC]
15:50:47 [RalphS]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/#wclVocabulary WCL Vocabulary
15:51:02 [DanC]: Sandro: I see the owl-time prolog thingy was at UMBC... LK, do you know much?
15:51:11 [DanC]: LK: not much. it was somebody's PhD thesis
15:51:37 [RalphS]: CoBrA
15:52:13 [RalphS]: http://cobra.umbc.edu/time.html
15:53:16 [DanC]: Zakim, close item 4
15:53:16 [Zakim]: agendum 4, OWL time, prolog implementation, soundness of approach to n-ary, closed
15:53:20 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:53:20 [Zakim]: 3. SEC filings in RDF? Outreach to financial? [from timbl via DanC]
15:53:26 [DanC]: Zakim, take up item 2
15:53:26 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Semantic Web applications" taken up [from sandro via DanC]
15:54:02 [DanC]: Sandro: why doesn't the machine answer my "what are my actions?" question in the morning?
15:54:10 [DanC]: ... RIF is using tracker, which doesn't keep history.
15:54:59 [DanC]: RRS: this is the bug of not steering people away from SQL
15:55:18 [DanC]: TBL: you can track history in SQL; you just have to change the model/schema
15:55:27 [DanC]: DanC: or keep the SQL logs
15:55:42 [DanC]: TBL: we have code to do RDF with what's in the SQL tables, but not the logs. interesting idea.
15:55:59 [timbl]: Don't let him vent, or he will steam of the energy which later he could put into coding ;-)))
15:56:31 [RalphS]: Ralph: there's also code specific to tracker to export its data in RDF
15:56:32 [DanC]: Sandro: want to think about doing it all as publishing RDF. thinking about where IRC tracker should publish its RDF... OpenID should help [?]
15:57:09 [DanC]: timbl: in my modelling [**pointer pending], every transition had a pointer to a justification.
15:57:27 [DanC]: q+ to note machine-readable minutes and agendas...
15:59:20 [DanC]: http://esw.w3.org/topic/MeetingRecords
15:59:48 [DanC]: http://esw.w3.org/topic/MidwestWeeklyAgenda
16:00:03 [timbl]: http://esw.w3.org/topic/TrackingIssues
16:00:46 [timbl]: http://www.w3.org/2005/01/wf/flow
16:00:50 [DanC]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
16:01:02 [DanC]: Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
16:01:02 [Zakim]: working on it, DanC
16:01:04 [Zakim]: agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-09-27T11:00-0400
16:01:05 [Zakim]: agendum 9 added
16:01:07 [Zakim]: agenda+ publication schedule
16:01:08 [Zakim]: agendum 10 added
16:01:09 [Zakim]: agenda+ Discussion of Primer Document
16:01:11 [Zakim]: agendum 11 added
16:01:12 [Zakim]: agenda+ Review of Use Cases document, reviewing actions from last meeting
16:01:15 [Zakim]: agendum 12 added
16:01:16 [Zakim]: agenda+ GRDDL Spec: [#issue-base-param]
16:01:17 [Zakim]: agendum 13 added
16:01:18 [Zakim]: agenda+ [#issue-output-formats] which output formats should GRDDL support?
16:01:19 [Zakim]: agendum 14 added
16:01:21 [Zakim]: agenda+ [#issue-mt-ns]
16:01:22 [Zakim]: agendum 15 added
16:01:23 [Zakim]: done reading agenda, DanC
16:03:59 [timbl]: http://www.w3.org/2005/01/wf/change.n3
16:04:52 [RalphS]: RRSagent does update <channel>-actions.rdf in real time
16:05:43 [RalphS]: Sandro: should 'drop action 53' generate an RDF delta?
16:06:20 [RalphS]: TimBL: could publish those RDF diff packages to any client to subscribed to deltas
16:07:03 [RalphS]: [Ralph silently contemplates code that would produce RDF diff from cvs diff]
16:07:08 [DanC]: q+ to ask how sandro would like to see the answer to "what are my actions?" and to note interest in tabulator as a PIM
16:08:06 [DanC]: (cvs diff is line-oriented; one of the main points in http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Diff is why that's not good enough. [not entirely sure that argument is effective, but it's there.])
16:09:18 [RalphS]: (in general, yes, but knowing the -actions.rdf graphs it may be trivial to reconstruct RDF diffs)
16:09:19 [DanC]: agenda -9
16:10:01 [DanC]: (ah.. now I see. yes.)
16:10:06 [RalphS]: zakim, drop agenda 9-15
16:10:07 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'drop agenda 9-15', RalphS
16:10:49 [DanC]: q+ to noodle on an ajax front end to zakim/tracker
16:13:21 [timbl]: q+ to talk baout figuring out who to send the info to from the state transition diagram.
16:14:06 [RalphS]: yeah, Tabulator-as-PIM would get me much more excited
16:15:18 [DanC]: ack danc
16:15:18 [Zakim]: DanC, you wanted to note machine-readable minutes and agendas... and to ask how sandro would like to see the answer to "what are my actions?" and to note interest in tabulator as a
16:15:22 [Zakim]: ... PIM and to noodle on an ajax front end to zakim/tracker
16:15:25 [DanC]: q+ to noodle on an ajax front end to zakim/tracker
16:18:16 [DanC]: (timbl discusses distributed transactions in a way that I wish I had the energy to record...)
16:18:50 [DanC]: (... including policy implications...)
16:20:06 [DanC]: (by the way, this sender-publishes architecture is the answer to spam problem, IMO. see http://homepages.tesco.net./~J.deBoynePollard/Proposals/IM2000/ <- http://del.icio.us/connolly/spam )
16:25:46 [DanC]: (tim and I have another meeting in 5 minutes.)
16:26:06 [DanC]: shall we estimate the odds of a meeting one week hence? any volunteers to chair?
16:30:07 [sandro]: Sandro: My intuition is that published RDF should be monotonic.
16:30:22 [sandro]: TimBL: (indications of general agreement)
16:31:19 [lkagal]: Is there a DIG meeting next week ?
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16:32:29 [Zakim]: -DanC
16:32:32 [Zakim]: -Lalana_Kagal
16:32:37 [Zakim]: -MIT531
16:32:38 [Zakim]: DIG_weekly()11:30AM has ended
16:32:40 [Zakim]: Attendees were TimBL, Ralph, DanC, Sandro, Lalana_Kagal
16:32:48 [RalphS]: zakim, bye
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16:32:50 [DanC]: I realize I'm not sure I can afford to even send a raw IRC log record today.
16:33:43 [RalphS]: I'm willing to run scribe.perl & send mail, Dan
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20:46:14 [DanC_lap]: tim? is the "mentions" stuff in the tabulator broken?
20:46:28 [DanC_lap]: i'm trying to browse http://norman.walsh.name/2006/itinerary/10-04-tag
20:46:59 [DanC_lap]: oh... it's getting the RDF version, not GRDDLing the html version... so I wonder if it will get the events.
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