IRC log of dig on 2007-01-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:37:01 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
01:45:59 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@146-115-112-112.c3-0.lex-ubr1.sbo-lex.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #dig
01:59:08 [timbl]
ooops,
01:59:12 [timbl]
missed you danc
01:59:16 [timbl]
I was cooking
01:59:45 [timbl]
Yes, for dbview Tabulator os the Terminator.
01:59:49 [timbl]
is the
02:00:12 [timbl]
a dozen requests at full spee and it falls over. Comes back by Ted's cron jon in minutes
02:00:47 [timbl]
Maybe it crashes with some input overflow error?
02:04:19 [timbl]
It is very repeatable. I wonder whether it would happen when dbview runs from the command line
02:05:54 [DanC]
ted's cron job doesn't seem to be doing the trick
02:06:13 [DanC]
oops; I misread the ps out put
02:06:36 [DanC]
ooh... a logfile ... /tmp/dbviewd
02:06:58 [timbl]
I know it always runs in t < time(complain(tim,ted))
02:08:41 [DanC]
http://cgi.w3.org/dbview/w3crequestTimeout
02:11:19 [sandro]
Hey, does directional bluetooth exist --- where a cell phone could tell the direction of each other device? In particular, I'm thinking about a phone/camera being able to tell what bluetooth devices (and maybe RFID devices) are in its field of vision......
02:11:48 [timbl]
It might need too large an antenna. like pringle can sized
02:12:19 [timbl]
Like exactl pringle can sized, as that is what you use for 802.11g snifffing and its the same crowded band
02:12:51 [timbl]
I am getting close to a vCard to rdf converter
02:13:49 [sandro]
I'm not thinking of directional sniffing, just direction-detecting. You could do it with three receivers and comparing the timing/phase of the arriving signal. So it shouldn't have to be a whole lot bigger.
02:14:23 [DanC]
did you end up using vcardin.py , timbl ?
02:14:58 [sandro]
Ha! I'm suddenly reminded of Peter Parker's camera, which would automatically take pictures of him (as Spider-man) because he wore a radio beacon for it.
02:15:11 [DanC]
vcardin.py is designed for use with a template. the template could be included in the code
02:16:37 [timbl]
not vcardin but icslex
02:17:16 [timbl]
I started reading the 'kid' poject and got too many clicks away
02:17:42 [timbl]
It turms out I think one needs to do a lot of hacks to do a good job eg with the useful AddressBook extension.
02:17:58 [timbl]
extensions
02:18:18 [DanC]
this is the template I use with vcardin.py http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2001/palmagent/contact.kid?rev=1.9&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
02:18:30 [DanC]
that generates XHTML (i.e. hCard)
02:18:37 [DanC]
I have a calendar tempalte for RDF
02:18:44 [timbl]
How set do you think the interest group etc aon the long nam,es they have been using like family-name
02:18:51 [DanC]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2001/palmagent/event-rdf.kid?rev=1.10&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
02:19:48 [DanC]
it's not semweb-ig that chose family-name but microformats.org
02:19:55 [DanC]
and they're about as set as one can be.
02:20:06 [DanC]
i.e. they've taught those names to a bunch of people, at great pain
02:20:16 [timbl]
Hmm.
02:20:17 [DanC]
and there's software and test cases
02:20:40 [timbl]
wg work-adr can be generated from the vcard
02:20:44 [DanC]
note that XQuery F&O use names like uri-escape too
02:20:44 [timbl]
there is a lot of vcard too
02:20:53 [timbl]
I guess a lookup won't kill anyone
02:21:09 [timbl]
uri-escape ?
02:21:24 [DanC]
uri-escape as opposed to uriEscape
02:21:25 [timbl]
you mean hyphenatyed
02:21:52 [timbl]
I won't battle over that, though it would be a coment.
02:22:06 [timbl]
Why do the microformt classnames have to be = to the rdf?
02:22:11 [timbl]
people, i guess
02:22:37 [timbl]
I have now like:
02:22:37 [timbl]
<tel:+1-425-936-5522> a vc:Msg.
02:22:37 [DanC]
the microformat names don't have to be the same. but it's handy if they are
02:22:38 [timbl]
<tel:+1-425-936-7329> a vc:Fax.
02:22:38 [timbl]
[] ;
02:22:38 [timbl]
v:n [ v:family-name "Stenerson"; v:given-name "Derik";];
02:22:38 [timbl]
v:fn "Derik Stenerson";
02:22:40 [timbl]
v:org [ v:organization-name "Microsoft Corporation";];
02:22:42 [timbl]
v:work-adr [ v:street-address "One Microsoft Way"; v:locality "Redmond"; v:region "WA"; v:postal-code "98052-6399"; v:country-name "USA";
02:22:45 [timbl]
a vc:Postal, vc:Parcel];
02:22:47 [timbl]
v:work-tel <tel:+1-425-936-5522>;
02:22:49 [timbl]
v:work-tel <tel:+1-425-936-7329>;
02:22:51 [timbl]
v:email <mailto:deriks@Microsoft.com>;
02:22:53 [timbl]
.
02:23:06 [DanC]
what's v: bound to?
02:23:17 [timbl]
I would like street better than stree-address partly becaus of space
02:23:24 [timbl]
I would be happy with st!
02:23:50 [timbl]
v stated offf bound to the 2007/vcard/ns
02:24:19 [timbl]
but I munged the ontology as I worked to make it come out sensible.
02:24:20 [timbl]
@prefix v: <http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns#>.
02:24:21 [timbl]
@prefix vc: <http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/class#>.
02:24:21 [timbl]
@prefix abl: <http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/abl#>.
02:24:21 [timbl]
@prefix user: <#>.
02:24:40 [DanC]
now that xquery is a rec, I have started telling cwm what http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/#FOO means for various FOO, where they match cwm built-ins
02:25:06 [timbl]
Ah, you have added extra registration lines?
02:25:29 [DanC]
one or two, I think
02:25:37 [timbl]
I wonder whether ther are URIs for DOM functions
02:25:49 [DanC]
fn = store.symbol("http://www.w3.org/2006/xpath-functions")
02:25:49 [DanC]
fn.internFrag("resolve-uri", BI_resolve_uri)
02:25:49 [DanC]
fn.internFrag("tokenize", BI_tokenize)
02:25:49 [DanC]
fn.internFrag("normalize-space", BI_normalize_space
02:25:58 [timbl]
cool
02:26:21 [timbl]
What does 'resolve-uri' do - look it up?
02:26:35 [DanC]
class BI_resolve_uri(LightBuiltIn, Function):
02:26:36 [DanC]
"""see http://www.w3.org/2006/xpath-functions#resolve-uri"""
02:26:36 [DanC]
02:26:36 [DanC]
def evaluateObject(self, subj_py):
02:26:36 [DanC]
import uripath
02:26:37 [DanC]
there, base = subj_py
02:26:39 [DanC]
return uripath.join(base, there)
02:26:56 [DanC]
resolve in the RFC2396 sense
02:27:55 [timbl]
What does mictoformats do with ADR;TYPE=WORK,POSTAL,PARCEL:;Suite 101;38777 West Six Mile Road; ...
02:28:09 [timbl]
WORK, POSTAL, PARCEL
02:28:17 [timbl]
the work comes as a work-address
02:28:33 [timbl]
but postal and parcel seem to me to be more actlual calsse of address.
02:28:55 [DanC]
well, they don't define a mapping from .vcf syntax to HTML, but only the other way. but I think you can generate that from hCard...
02:29:14 [timbl]
I have been making:
02:29:14 [timbl]
v:work-adr [ v:extended-address "Suite 101"; v:street-address "38777 West Six Mile Road"; v:locality "Livonia"; v:region "MI"; v:postal-code "48152"; v:country-name "USA";
02:29:14 [timbl]
a vc:Postal, vc:Parcel];
02:29:28 [DanC]
21-tel.vcf:TEL;TYPE=home,work,pref,voice,fax,msg,cell,pager,bbs,car,isdn,video,pcs:+14155551233
02:29:54 [timbl]
Which looks in HTML like?
02:29:57 [DanC]
<p class="tel">
02:29:57 [DanC]
<abbr class="type" title="home">H</abbr>
02:29:57 [DanC]
<span class="value">+1 415 555 1234</span>
02:29:57 [DanC]
</p>
02:29:57 [DanC]
<div class="tel">
02:29:57 [DanC]
types:
02:29:59 [DanC]
<ul>
02:30:02 [DanC]
<li class="type">msg</li>
02:30:04 [DanC]
<li class="type">home</li>
02:30:05 [DanC]
<li class="type">work</li>
02:30:07 [DanC]
<li class="type">pref</li>
02:30:32 [DanC]
I think ul/li is magic in hCard. I'm not sure how widely implemented that is
02:30:37 [timbl]
So you have to se the types, they are not classs
02:31:08 [timbl]
Actually there BTW an i18n problem in using actual keyworks (english) in text.
02:31:14 [DanC]
it took a while to decide how type was going to work in hCard...
02:31:50 [DanC]
you can do <abbr title="work" class="type">trabajar</abbr> for I18N, I think
02:32:08 [timbl]
ah.
02:32:19 [timbl]
I could ony condone that! :)
02:32:47 [DanC]
yeah; whether that's abuse or not is discussed now and again
02:33:35 [timbl]
The advantage of work-tel is it is generated and so can easily extended to main-tel or home-aim whcih arenot in teh actual RFC
02:34:21 [timbl]
main is used by apple without an x-
02:34:29 [DanC]
interesting
02:35:17 [DanC]
I'm conservative about doing stuff in RDF that doesn't map back to .vcf syntax, but if there's some .vcf syntax that is usefully animated by tools like apple's addressbook, that's usually good enough for me.
02:35:35 [timbl]
Oh, round-tripping is important
02:36:19 [DanC]
rather: I'm conservative about using the http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns namespace for stuff without .vcf syntax. (of course when it comes to other namespaces, crunch all you want)
02:36:26 [timbl]
I have an abl: namespace for things which ate AB-special. That will round trip with apple extensions to vcard
02:36:49 [timbl]
I don't kno whether vcard agents arte supposed to hold extensions and just store and ignore hem.
02:37:22 [DanC]
my impression is that you keep the extension fields if you recognize them and throw them away otherwise.
02:37:31 [timbl]
But a happy goal would be to be able to roundtrip my addressbook.
02:37:36 [DanC]
"recognize" i.e. if you think you wrote them
02:37:47 [timbl]
Ok, not so RDF!
02:38:23 [timbl]
Adderssbook probably does that as it doesn't store vcf as its format, t obviously had to wedge it into vcr with a mallet.
02:41:07 [timbl]
cwm now reads the n3 .. of course prints out address fields in alphabetical order :-/
02:41:25 [DanC]
why is that bad?
02:41:29 [timbl]
it would be too seaky to kludge the names :)
02:41:43 [DanC]
in rdf calendar, round-trip testing always starts with RDF
02:41:48 [timbl]
a vc:Parcel,
02:41:48 [timbl]
vc:Postal;
02:41:48 [timbl]
:country-name "USA";
02:41:48 [timbl]
:extended-address "Suite 101";
02:41:49 [timbl]
:locality "Livonia";
02:41:49 [timbl]
:postal-code "48152";
02:41:51 [timbl]
:region "MI";
02:41:53 [timbl]
:street-address "38777 West Six Mile Road" ];
02:42:16 [DanC]
are you using the cwm API to generate the N3? or just printing it?
02:42:27 [timbl]
just printing it.
02:42:39 [DanC]
did you do anything about character-level escapes?
02:42:52 [timbl]
I have written the de-escaping of semicolons etc for ncard, but I'm not escaping the n3 tey
02:42:54 [timbl]
yet
02:43:31 [timbl]
I would actually like it to be pretty stand-alone
02:43:41 [timbl]
so people don't have to install cwm. It uses uripath
02:43:51 [timbl]
ans icslex
02:43:58 [timbl]
and
02:44:01 [DanC]
def unesc(val):
02:44:01 [DanC]
r""" undo escaping ala rfc2445#sec4.3.11
02:44:06 [DanC]
^ from icslex.py
02:44:57 [timbl]
hmm.
02:44:57 [DanC]
my implementation of the N field is rudimentary/broken. just uses split()
02:45:22 [timbl]
def splitBy(stri, delim, unescape=1):
02:45:22 [timbl]
"Split by unescaped delimiters"
02:45:26 [DanC]
lex_fields() in vcardin.py is the code that juse uses split()
02:45:28 [timbl]
from vcard2n3.py
02:45:52 [timbl]
YUou have to split by ; at the same time as you unescape the \;
02:46:03 [DanC]
wasn't it you that pointed out vobject from the OSAF?
02:46:39 [DanC]
it's bad enough that _I_ write code that n other people have written; now I've got _you_ doing it ;-)
02:48:08 [timbl]
Yes. Someone will soon write a coding fad about why it is so important in whatever succeeds extreeme programming
02:48:22 [timbl]
Write it Yourself then check Other people's Pattern
02:48:58 [timbl]
I don't have a good set of test cases for unescaping so it is probably broken.
02:49:31 [timbl]
I fixed your parseLIne to not loop with ever-groing heap if the value field was empty
02:49:48 [timbl]
but i didn't mae a new tets case
02:50:13 [timbl]
Oh no i did
02:50:24 [timbl]
>>> parseLine('PHOTO;BASE64:')
02:50:24 [timbl]
('photo', [('base64', None)], '')
02:51:35 [timbl]
gtg
02:51:40 [DanC]
hasta
02:59:40 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
03:05:17 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@146-115-112-112.c3-0.lex-ubr1.sbo-lex.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #dig
03:33:56 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
06:57:02 [eikeon_]
eikeon_ (n=eikeon@dsl092-168-155.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #dig
06:58:07 [eikeon]
eikeon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:32:08 [maxwilson]
maxwilson (n=maxwilso@cpc5-sout6-0-0-cust796.sotn.cable.ntl.com) has joined #dig
09:52:58 [maxwilson]
maxwilson has quit ()
09:54:05 [maxwilson]
maxwilson (n=maxwilso@cpc5-sout6-0-0-cust796.sotn.cable.ntl.com) has joined #dig
09:54:40 [maxwilson]
maxwilson has quit (Client Quit)
10:00:57 [Cloud]
Cloud has quit ("Lost terminal")
11:39:11 [maxwilson]
maxwilson (n=maxwilso@gingdotpb.ecs.soton.ac.uk) has joined #dig
11:39:24 [maxwilson]
maxwilson has quit (Client Quit)
11:39:57 [maxwilson]
maxwilson (n=maxwilso@gingdotpb.ecs.soton.ac.uk) has joined #dig
12:21:34 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@146-115-112-112.c3-0.lex-ubr1.sbo-lex.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #dig
12:31:56 [RalphS]
RalphS (n=swick@30-6-113.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
12:38:55 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
12:54:41 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@146-115-112-112.c3-0.lex-ubr1.sbo-lex.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #dig
12:55:10 [timbl]
timbl has quit (Client Quit)
12:57:29 [Cloud]
Cloud (n=Cloud@Srvgal18-vm5.nuigalway.ie) has joined #dig
14:11:41 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@30-7-120.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
14:52:24 [Cloud]
timbl: yes, that is I! It would be great to call by on March 1st if possible (I will be at the MIT TEF on the 2nd)
15:22:29 [jambo_]
jambo_ (i=jambo@30-6-150.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
15:37:26 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
15:39:26 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@30-7-120.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
16:33:00 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
16:38:10 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@30-7-120.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
16:46:55 [yosi_s]
yosi_s (n=chatzill@YOSI.MIT.EDU) has joined #dig
17:03:25 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
17:04:18 [maxwilson]
maxwilson has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:24:09 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@30-7-120.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
17:30:09 [timbl]
Cloud, ok, 10-11ET?
17:30:33 [timbl]
Anything particular you would like to discuss?
18:13:32 [maxwilson]
maxwilson (n=maxwilso@cpc5-sout6-0-0-cust796.sotn.cable.ntl.com) has joined #dig
18:13:45 [maxwilson]
maxwilson has quit (Client Quit)
18:14:57 [maxwilson]
maxwilson (n=maxwilso@cpc5-sout6-0-0-cust796.sotn.cable.ntl.com) has joined #dig
18:15:43 [DanC_lap]
DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30.dyn.everestkc.net) has joined #dig
18:36:22 [DanC]
DanC has quit (Remote closed the connection)
18:38:02 [maxwilson]
maxwilson has quit ()
18:42:17 [DanC_lap]
DanC_lap has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:42:41 [maxwilson]
maxwilson (n=maxwilso@cpc5-sout6-0-0-cust796.sotn.cable.ntl.com) has joined #dig
18:44:05 [maxwilson]
maxwilson has quit (Client Quit)
18:48:38 [jambo_]
jambo_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:11:17 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()
19:26:24 [timbl]
timbl (n=timbl@30-7-120.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
19:26:33 [DanC_lap]
DanC_lap (n=connolly@kci-host141.cust.wifi.sprintpcs.com) has joined #dig
20:09:22 [DanC_]
DanC_ (n=connolly@kci-host141.cust.wifi.sprintpcs.com) has joined #dig
20:10:44 [DanC_lap]
DanC_lap has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:35:49 [DanC_]
DanC_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:19:49 [RalphS]
RalphS has quit ("bye for today")
23:04:12 [timbl]
timbl has quit ()