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11:39:13 <kubrick.freenode.net> topic is: DIG (http://dig.csail.mit.edu/ ) meets Mondays at 2:30pm
11:39:13 <kubrick.freenode.net> Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS timbl sandro eikeon das05r sbp DanC 
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15:45:21 <yosi_s> timbl, cwm was only sending out an accept header for rdf/xml
15:45:28 <yosi_s> the reason being a change by you
15:45:51 <yosi_s> from Jan 29, 2007
15:46:01 <yosi_s> labeled `Separate Accept: headers for buggy servers'
15:46:35 <yosi_s> this fixed nothing
15:46:44 <yosi_s> it simply stopped cwm from asking for n3
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16:33:48 <sandro> Do we have an agenda today?
16:46:14 <sandro> DanC, are you going to DIG today?    (and if so, I'm curious why.   I'm trying to figure out if there's any reason to go.)
17:03:59 <DanC> the time is reserved in my calendar; I don't like endorsing meetings without prepared agendas, but...
17:05:38 <DanC> I guess I'm likely to attend in support of UROP supervision
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17:54:11 <sandro> I did now.    Yeah, UROP supervision is nice, but not worth my time right now.        Something about Semantic Web Architecture would be, though.     Maybe not today, anyway.
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18:07:44 <DanC> hmm... getting the GRDDL PR out might preempt my attendance
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18:20:20 <sandro> I wonder if there are a couple really *good* examples of simple N3 rules which I can use for RIF.   I'm pretty tired of rules like in the current RIF draft, part of which reads:     And ( Exists ?Buyer (purchase(?Buyer ?Seller book(?Author LeRif) $49)) ?Seller=?Author )
18:21:05 <sandro> (note the book title and the dollar amount are these weird constant things -- I have no idea what they are.)
18:27:46 <DanC> the GRDDL spec has a dozen or so rules in it. I dunno to what extent spec writing is an interesting use case in RIF
18:28:24 <DanC> the rules that interest me tend to be policies that involve quoting.
18:28:55 <DanC> "you can't assign an action to somebody who isn't at the meeting" is a pretty interesting rule that doesn't involve quoting
18:29:16 <DanC> I wonder if that one is doable with OWL 1.1 property chaining
18:29:35 <DanC> action o owner <= attendee
18:30:30 <timbl> agenda+ agenda bashing
18:30:56 <timbl> agenda+ around the table report last week progess or otherwaise
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18:31:22 <RalphS> zakim, this is dig
18:31:22 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; that matches DIG_weekly()2:30PM
18:31:23 <timbl> agenda+ around the table report last week progess or otherwaise
18:31:29 <timbl> agenda+ agenda bashing
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18:31:34 <RalphS> zakim, mit531 has Lalana, TimBL, Kenny, Sonia, Yosi, Ralph
18:31:35 <Zakim> +Lalana, TimBL, Kenny, Sonia, Yosi, Ralph; got it
18:31:42 <RalphS> zakim, mit531 also has David
18:31:42 <Zakim> +David; got it
18:32:12 <Zakim> +DanC
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18:33:28 <RalphS> Zakim, mit531 also has Apoorva, Joe
18:33:28 <Zakim> +Apoorva, Joe; got it
18:33:35 <RalphS> Meeting: DIG
18:33:39 <RalphS> Chair: TimBL
18:33:52 <RalphS> scribenick: lkagal
18:34:37 <timbl> agenda+  Tabulator SPARQL update server 
18:34:38 <lkagal> timbl: 2 minutes around the table. Then talk about protocol between tabulator and server.
18:34:54 <timbl> agenda+ configuration.js
18:35:13 <yosi_s> agenda + the meaning of section 14 of rfc2616
18:35:34 <RalphS> Yosi: aka Accept:
18:35:50 <DanC> hmm...  "minor changes" as a commit message...
18:35:53 <RalphS> zakim, take up agendum 1
18:35:53 <Zakim> agendum 1. "around the table report last week progess or otherwaise" taken up [from timbl]
18:36:00 <timbl> topic: Around the table
18:36:09 <timbl> Lalana: We had a NICECAP meeting
18:36:23 <DanC> (NICECAP and DTO... are those known things? I wonder if they're easy to find from the DIG homepage)
18:36:25 <timbl> about the DTO-funded project E2ESA
18:36:29 <timbl> which went well.
18:36:37 <lkagal> TAMI/DTO project current status: http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/inprogress/TAMI.Overview.html
18:36:48 <RalphS> -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/inprogress/TAMI.Overview.html TAMI status
18:36:50 <timbl> End -End Semantic Accountability
18:38:20 <RalphS> Lalana: we're hoping to have a policy development course next year
18:38:29 <RalphS> s/year/term/
18:38:40 <RalphS> ... so we're working on making a working reasoner before then
18:39:55 <timbl> The reasoner will be in scheme to be compatible with earlier work
18:40:37 <Zakim> +Sandro
18:40:58 <DanC> "reformatting comments" is better than "minor changes"
18:41:07 <DanC> 4.11 Sorting Results
18:41:09 <DanC> oops
18:41:48 <DanC> rev 3343 changes a function name; in C, that's a big deal. how about javascript?
18:42:10 <lkagal> ralph: no dig work over past week
18:42:36 <lkagal> yosi: someone discovered bug in cwm that I'm trying to fix
18:43:09 <DanC> is this the bug you just mentioned, yosi? "sparql/detailed.tests#t1001 fails" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cwm-bugs/2007Jul/0000.html
18:43:12 <RalphS> q+ to use 30 more seconds of my 2 minutes
18:44:26 <timbl> agenda+ Python or Scheme and Javascript
18:44:46 <yosi_s> DanC, that's right
18:44:56 <lkagal> Ralph: 1 press release. PURL service ? 
18:45:32 <lkagal> Ralph: EricM's group to provide 303 redirects
18:45:36 <RalphS> Ralph: PURL service will be updated to support 303 redirects
18:45:58 <lkagal> PURL = persistent URLs
18:46:01 <timbl> agenda+  drag and Drop demo
18:47:27 <lkagal> Kenny: added drag and drop for Tabulator
18:47:41 <lkagal> Kenny: need to register datatypes
18:47:48 <timbl> agenda+ Clipboard datatypes .. registering datatypes
18:48:03 <DanC> (usecase/story of drag-n-drop?)
18:48:39 <timbl> agenda 7
18:49:08 <lkagal> Kenny: can drag n3 file into firefox tab. Think it will be possible to run cwm inside firefox because we can run shell scripts.
18:50:02 <lkagal> David: I added tab and shift + tab
18:50:23 <RalphS> Agenda: https://lists.csail.mit.edu/mailman/private/diggers/2007-July/001244.html
18:50:50 <DanC> agenda + toward release: documenting, testing new features
18:51:25 <lkagal> David: In the table view most of the data is lost. For editing we need this info.
18:51:47 <timbl> (datya connetig the statemenst in et store wiht the display)
18:51:53 <lkagal> Joe: Working with EricP on sparql update. 
18:52:20 <DanC> for tab/shift-tab, it would be nice to note that as a new feature in the issue tracker; there's a "show me all new features" report that we (should) use at release time
18:52:43 <lkagal> Joe: Authentication required before updating. Connection with algae ? 
18:54:19 <DanC> presbrey, that sounds cool. is there anybody else who knows how to use it?
18:54:43 <lkagal> Joe: already connected with Algae using sparql update. EricP is finishing delete in Algae.
18:55:05 <lkagal> s/update/insert
18:55:59 <lkagal> Joe: EricP doesn't like Andy's sparql  update so I've updated tabulator to use EricP's language.
18:57:00 <lkagal> Timbl: I'd prefer it if you used Andy's language.
18:57:17 <DanC> (I can't concur with tim here; I haven't looked at Andy's syntax vs Eric's... though I agree that differences should get worked out, preferably with discussion archives in public-sparql-dev@w3.org )
18:57:34 <lkagal> Ralph: You shouldn't lose support for Andy's language 
18:59:18 <lkagal> Ralph: Joe, it would be good to figure out if there any particular advantage of using one over the other in Tabulator.
18:59:38 <timbl> http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/SPARQL-Update.html
18:59:47 <presbrey> http://128.31.35.90/yacker/uploads/SPARQLseqFed?lang=perl&markup=html
19:00:17 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/1999/02/26-modules/User/Algae-HOWTO.html
19:00:51 <RalphS> http://www.w3.org/2004/05/06-Algae/
19:02:18 <lkagal> Timbl: Welcome Apoorva
19:02:35 <DanC> and in what programming language do you expect to do it ;-)
19:02:39 <lkagal> Apoorva: We will be developing a policy reasoner in Scheme
19:02:51 <DanC> scheme. sigh.
19:03:24 <lkagal> Apoorva: I'll be working on the ReiPlus language
19:06:00 <yosi_s> DanC, what's wrong with scheme? lambda? if so, we can try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlambda
19:07:18 <DanC> what's wrong with scheme is that every scheme project seems to make its own customized dialect of scheme; it's quite difficult to read scheme code, in my experience. there's little appreciation for "follow your nose"
19:07:22 <lkagal> Sonia: I'm working on coloring in the outline view. 
19:07:42 <timbl> Looking at http://web.mit.edu/soniaswm/Public/foaf.rdf#me 
19:07:53 <timbl> in tabulator much of the data is green.
19:08:12 <timbl> Currently any CC licece wil turn green.  In future, thi will be programmable.
19:08:36 <DanC> -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator/issue203 reflect CC license in outline view
19:09:04 <lkagal> Sonia: If you select a certain license, all data with that license will turn green.
19:09:46 <lkagal> Timbl: I was on vacation last week !
19:10:17 <timbl>  http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/data
19:12:01 <lkagal> Timbl: at least from w3c. I put some views on the tabulator. There is a table, cog wheel, and the rdf symbol next to the uri
19:13:05 <DanC> -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator/issue81 Issue81 document/graph view
19:14:18 <lkagal> Timbl: cog provides details of the request
19:15:11 <lkagal> Timbl: rdf symbol show a serialization of the file
19:19:19 <lkagal> Timbl: I've added base to cwm
19:19:32 <RalphS> s/base/@base/
19:19:41 <timbl> @base <../foo>
19:20:33 <timbl> ---------------------------
19:20:43 <timbl> agenda?
19:21:03 <DanC> Zakim, close item 1
19:21:04 <DanC> Zakim, close item 2
19:21:04 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, DanC
19:21:06 <Zakim> agendum 2, agenda bashing, closed
19:21:07 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:21:08 <Zakim> 1. around the table report last week progess or otherwaise [from timbl]
19:21:42 <yosi_s> agenda?
19:22:34 <RalphS> zakim, take up agendum 7
19:22:35 <Zakim> agendum 7. "drag and Drop demo" taken up [from timbl]
19:22:55 <RalphS> zakim, order 3,5
19:22:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'order 3,5', RalphS
19:22:59 <RalphS> zakim, agenda order 3,5
19:22:59 <Zakim> ok, RalphS
19:23:14 <lkagal> Kenny demos drag and drop... 
19:23:31 <RalphS> action: Ralph buy Kenny a miniDVI->VGA adapter
19:24:06 <yosi_s> I had always assumed that n3 files just appeared out of the aether
19:24:31 <lkagal> Kenny opens a dir, selects an n3 file, and drags it to a firefox tab.
19:25:08 <lkagal> Kenny: you can also open a URI in tabulator in another tab. For example, drag and drop Joe's foaf.
19:25:18 <DanC> q+ to ask for drag-n-drop tutorial, a la calendar, query tutorials
19:25:24 <timbl> Kenny drags a cell from tabulator onto a ffox tab and it opens in that tab.
19:27:00 <lkagal> Kenny drags an image file into Joe's foaf file as his depiction.
19:27:49 <lkagal> Kenny: need to add it to the predicate
19:28:19 <DanC> (if I open http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/ in a separate window and drag the photo from there to "Depiction", then firefox replaces the whole tabulator with the photo)
19:28:38 <lkagal> Kenny: can also drag text into an editor.
19:30:25 <DanC> ~/projects/tabulator/ajar$ hg log --date ">2007-07-09"|grep changeset|wc
19:30:25 <DanC>      71     142    2130
19:30:35 <DanC> so 71 commits in the last week. busy week!
19:32:15 <lkagal> Kenny: If you add an empty document to the kb, it shows up as a NewRDFDocument.
19:32:47 <timbl> ---------------------------------------
19:34:11 <DanC> (I just updated http://homer.w3.org/~connolly/projects/tabulator/ w.r.t. svn)
19:34:59 <yosi_s> DanC, I still cannot hg pull that URI
19:35:20 <DanC> what happens when you try, yosi_s ?
19:35:31 <yosi_s> 30-7-176:/tmp yosi$ hg pull http://homer.w3.org/~connolly/projects/tabulator/
19:35:31 <yosi_s> abort: There is no Mercurial repository here (.hg not found)!
19:35:37 <timbl> agenda?
19:35:40 <DanC> you have to hg init first
19:35:46 <DanC> or use hg clone rather than hg pull, yosi
19:36:07 <RalphS> zakim, close agendum 7
19:36:08 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, RalphS
19:36:13 <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ask for drag-n-drop tutorial, a la calendar, query tutorials
19:36:29 <RalphS> next agendum
19:36:48 <timbl> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2616.html
19:36:57 <RalphS> zakim, take up agendum 5
19:36:57 <Zakim> agendum 5. "the meaning of section 14 of rfc2616" taken up [from yosi_s]
19:37:11 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616.html
19:37:47 <lkagal> Yosi: Are you allowed to have more than 1 accept header ? 
19:38:02 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html#sec14.1 14.1 Accept
19:38:06 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616.html
19:38:43 <DanC> "Multiple message-header fields with the same field-name MAY be present in a message if and only if the entire field-value for that header field is defined as a comma-separated list [i.e., #(values)]."
19:38:45 <lkagal> DanC: The syntactic details of the accept header are not in the accept section but in the syntax section
19:39:57 <lkagal> Yosi: Timbl tried to allow multiple accept headers in cwm but this didn't work because python http libraries don't allow it. 
19:40:36 <lkagal> Yosi: this caused the error that was reported yesterday
19:40:45 <yosi_s> ericP was asking if cwm should also have a choice in accept: for turtle
19:40:54 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-swbp-vocab-pub-20060314/
19:41:14 <DanC> "All comments are welcome and may be sent to public-swbp-wg@w3.org; "
19:41:49 <RalphS> -. http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-vocab-pub/ 
19:41:58 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-vocab-pub/ Best Practice Recipes for Publishing RDF Vocabularies
19:42:46 <RalphS> move to next agendum
19:42:46 <Zakim> agendum 9. "toward release: documenting, testing new features" taken up [from DanC]
19:43:05 <DanC> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/tut/querytut.html
19:45:16 <DanC> -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator/issue?@columns=title,id,activity,actor&@sort=-activity&@group=priority&@filter=priority,status&@pagesize=50&@startwith=0&priority=4&status=8&@dispname=Features%20done features done report
19:47:15 <DanC> "I wouldn't do any global changes without Jim here" <- having more tests (esp automated tests) can avoid that sort of thing, sometimes.
19:50:05 <DanC> stuff tends to get stuck in "done-cbb" and/or "testing" state; I wonder if there's anything to be done about that.
19:51:29 <DanC> "Show rdfs:comment when hover over a node" is marked done-cbb; in what way could it be better, kennyluck ? I'm inclined to create new issues for the cbb parts and mark this one done
19:52:00 <RalphS> '252 instances' would work pretty well
19:53:03 <DanC> yes, use "testing" status for "done but not documented"
19:53:10 <yosi_s> done, and has reached a state of absolute perfection that cannot be improved upon
19:53:19 <kennyluck> Actually this feature is not on the trunk, so it's actually 'deffered' or 'removed'
19:53:25 <RalphS> '1..20 of 252' would also be ok
19:54:23 <DanC> -> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator/issue176 Show rdfs:comment when hover over a node
19:56:09 <kennyluck> implemented in a long-time-ago branch
19:56:12 <kennyluck> https://svn.csail.mit.edu/kennyluck/tab/tab.html
19:56:19 <DanC> I tend to stick stuff in "testing" when I see some claim that it's done (e.g. in a commit message) that I haven't verified myself.
19:57:45 <yosi_s> Zakim, remind me in 3 minutes that it is 4:00
19:57:46 <Zakim> ok, yosi_s
19:59:01 <DanC> agenda?
19:59:23 <DanC> 2nd motion to adjourn.
19:59:57 <presbrey> presbrey has quit ("Leaving.")
20:00:31 <RalphS> zakim, list attendees
20:00:31 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Lalana, TimBL, Kenny, Sonia, Yosi, Ralph, David, DanC, Apoorva, Joe, Sandro
20:00:46 <Zakim> yosi_s, you asked to be reminded at this time that it is 4:00
20:01:35 <Zakim> -MIT531
20:01:42 <Zakim> -Sandro
20:01:52 <timbl> Sorru, DanC, the phone lost power
20:02:00 <timbl> But we had adjourned
20:02:53 <lkagal> lkagal has quit ()
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20:03:46 <DanC> right, we're adjourned.
20:06:42 <Zakim> DIG_weekly()2:30PM has ended
20:06:43 <Zakim> Attendees were Lalana, TimBL, Kenny, Sonia, Yosi, Ralph, David, DanC, Apoorva, Joe, Sandro
20:09:46 <DanC> yosi_s, any luck with http://homer.w3.org/~connolly/projects/tabulator/ ?
20:10:10 <yosi_s> yes, a hg clone worked
20:11:15 <DanC> I found hg fairly easy to learn; I guess it matches my intuitions
20:12:40 <yosi_s> I've found for my own use cases that bzr is a better match for me; even if it is really slow
20:13:19 <DanC> bzr looks quite tempting; it seems to fit into the web a little nicer. I have managed to avoid using it so far, but I doubt I can avoid it much longer.
20:14:16 <DanC> bzr is slow... are you using it on huge projects? or is it slow even on small/medium projects?
20:14:34 <yosi_s> on huge projects it is unusably slow
20:14:47 <yosi_s> I use it on small projects, where it is merely slow
20:15:52 <yosi_s> cvs is slow too
20:16:18 <DanC> cvs is slow any time a network is involved
20:16:52 <yosi_s> I made a copy of the cwm tree in bzr and hg
20:16:54 <DanC> if the ,v files are local, cvs is reasonably fast, no?
20:16:56 <yosi_s> changed one file
20:16:58 <yosi_s> ran diff
20:17:15 <yosi_s> I don't remember the numbers
20:17:24 <yosi_s> I seem to remember that hg was around 100 times faster
20:17:29 <Zakim> Zakim has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:17:51 <yosi_s> I don't know about local cvs; I've never done it
20:18:18 <RalphS> RalphS has quit ("bye for today")
20:18:27 <DanC> in a way, hg cheats by copying the repository so that diff is faster...
20:18:47 <DanC> ... but since its repository is often smaller than the checked-out version (due to compression), it's not bad at all.
20:19:40 <yosi_s> both hg and bzr keep a local copy of the repository
20:19:46 <yosi_s> that should not have mattered
20:20:27 <DanC> connolly@pav:~/projects/tabulator/ajar$ du -s .hg
20:20:27 <DanC> 15884   .hg
20:20:27 <DanC> connolly@pav:~/projects/tabulator/ajar$ du -s .
20:20:27 <DanC> 54879   .
20:20:51 <DanC> i.e. the whole project history of the tabulator is smaller than the checked-out version.
20:21:06 <davidli> davidli has quit ()
20:21:24 <DanC> (since 15 is less than half of 54)
20:22:18 <DanC> oops; I have .svn too
20:23:31 <kennyluck> kennyluck has quit ()
20:24:27 <yosi_s> where in http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-vocab-pub/ is the line I'm supposed to complain about?
20:24:32 <yosi_s> what does it say?
20:24:35 <yosi_s> what should it say?
20:24:38 <DanC> ~/projects/tabulator/ajar$ hg archive -t files /tmp/tabr
20:24:44 <DanC> ~/projects/tabulator/ajar$ du -s /tmp/tabr
20:24:44 <DanC> 17626   /tmp/tabr
20:25:56 <timbl> timbl has quit ()
20:26:16 <DanC> complain... good question. I just looked at all occurrences of "application/rdf+xml" and I don't see any problems
20:26:38 <yosi_s> what doe the line 
20:26:39 <yosi_s> RewriteCond %{HTTP_ACCEPT} application/rdf\+xml
20:26:41 <yosi_s> mean?
20:27:46 <DanC> I can only guess, but I doubt that helps
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20:37:21 <DanC> yosi_s, I suggest you mail timbl, copy www-archive, and maybe me and ralph
20:58:30 <yosi_s> DanC, I sent something
20:58:46 <DanC> cool
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