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03:43:12 <timbl> DIGlogger, pointer?
03:43:12 <timbl> See http://dig.csail.mit.edu/irc/dig/2007-08-09#T03-43-12
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06:39:12 <kennyluck> DIGlogger, pointer?
06:39:12 <kennyluck> See http://dig.csail.mit.edu/irc/dig/2007-08-09#T06-39-12
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13:45:08 <ericP> joe's not around?
13:45:27 <ericP> (not sure if he disguises himself under an alias)
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14:57:24 <RalphS> I confirm 404 at http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator
14:57:40 <RalphS> there are probably notes in the (inaccessible) tabulator archive on how it's setup
14:57:59 <RalphS> it's likely something we have the power to fix
14:58:06 <RalphS> David Sheets would know
14:58:18 <jambo> yeah, i was going to drop him an e-mail
14:58:27 <RalphS> I suggesting sending a request to help@csail.mit.edu
14:58:44 <jambo> okay
14:59:03 <RalphS> not really their problem, but since it's probably caused by their changes they should help us diagnose and fix
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15:08:45 <jambo> DIGlogger, pointer
15:08:45 <jambo> See http://dig.csail.mit.edu/irc/dig/2007-08-09#T15-08-45
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15:36:46 <jambo> kennyluck, do you have a moment
15:36:56 <kennyluck> yes
15:37:35 <jambo> the keyboard behavior for editing in the outline is much better now
15:37:54 <kennyluck> Okay, thank you.
15:37:56 <jambo> but the option of just starting to type still needs to be removed because of what i said yesterday
15:38:14 <kennyluck> Yes, sure.
15:38:16 <jambo> hitting ctrl+t while a node is highlight will cause it to start editing
15:38:27 <jambo> but then open a new tab
15:38:42 <jambo> which is no good :)
15:39:03 <kennyluck> Uh-huh.
15:39:12 <jambo> but otherwise, the click and wait stuff and hitting enter works good.
15:40:12 <jambo> oh, one thing i only just noticed
15:40:35 <kennyluck> ?
15:40:36 <jambo> hitting enter on symbols that are objects is opening them in a new outline node still
15:41:01 <jambo> i'm not sure if tim wanted those to be editable
15:41:39 <jambo> but if he did, then we'd need to get rid of that behavior
15:41:57 <jambo> that can wait though, I'm sure doing something like that would be relatively easy.
15:42:26 <kennyluck> what do you mean? I don't get it.
15:42:34 <kennyluck> those refer to...?
15:42:51 <jambo> hmm?
15:43:07 <jambo> probably best with an example
15:43:17 <kennyluck> ok, sure.
15:43:32 <jambo> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/wiki/jambobo.rdf
15:43:53 <jambo> I should be able to edit the creator, right?
15:43:57 <jambo> or no
15:44:19 <kennyluck> you mean the predicate?
15:44:23 <jambo> no, the object.
15:44:53 <jambo> specifically, though, the node "James Hollenbach" -- not the literal one
15:45:40 <kennyluck> yes, then? yeah, that should be editable.
15:45:46 <jambo> okay, well
15:45:56 <jambo> what combination of keys makes me able to edit it?
15:46:30 <kennyluck> You mean delete the triple  xxx.rdf dc:creator jambo?
15:46:59 <kennyluck> Or you meant edit the URI directly?
15:47:04 <jambo> no, I want to change it to say "Ringo Starr" or something
15:47:15 <jambo> and no longer say jambo
15:47:30 <jambo> where ringostarr has URI example.com/foo#ringo
15:47:34 <jambo> that we know about already
15:47:46 <kennyluck> I see...I would say no and recommend you delete and add a new triple.
15:47:59 <jambo> that's a little silly, isn't it?
15:48:14 <jambo> I can edit a literal in place, why can't I edit the symbol in place
15:48:31 <kennyluck> I don't know.
15:48:43 <jambo> does your version let you do that?
15:48:55 <kennyluck> No.
15:49:46 <jambo> well, would it be easy to make it do that?
15:50:09 <jambo> having me delete a triple and add a new one seems like something that the UI ought to hide from me, if i just edit it
15:50:14 <jambo> the same way that it does with literals
15:51:04 <kennyluck> it is easy. But I am not sure this is good. Anyway, this is not urgent.
15:51:15 <jambo> What makes it not good?
15:51:18 <jambo> If the user can delete a triple
15:51:21 <jambo> and enter a new triple
15:51:28 <jambo> that goes exactly where the old one is
15:51:34 <jambo> and it makes the UI more consistent
15:51:56 <jambo> it's just silly if when you want to edit a literal you can just go ahead and type it, but when you want to edit a symbol you have to first delete it and then add a new one
15:52:43 <jambo> the code already exists when you have the user typing an object in when they add a new triple -- why can't that code be in the other place too?  I'm trying to make the UI consistent instead of confusing
15:53:22 <jambo> because somebody using it will go "hey I just changed the label to something else.  Now i'm going to change the 'last contributor' to myself"
15:54:00 <jambo> they should be able to do that with the same general key operations as they did when they changed the literal
15:54:35 <kennyluck> Maybe you're right. Just be sure to agree with Tim.
15:57:06 <kennyluck> You can do that if you think this is super-urgent. I don't really mind if anyone edits my code.
15:57:36 <jambo> what are you currently working on?
15:57:49 <jambo> the most important thing, we agreed on yesterday, was making the UI cosistent.
15:57:53 <jambo> *consistent
15:57:56 <kennyluck> I am doing error callbacks. And there are tons of bugs.
15:58:14 <kennyluck> menu alignment. drag and drop.
15:58:27 <jambo> please scratch drag and drop
15:58:56 <jambo> making the simple UI that does keyboard editing spot on is much more important at this stage than drag and drop
16:01:04 <kennyluck> I don't really want to get rid of drag and drop. Anyway, that's not on top of my todo list.
16:02:19 <jambo> if you want drag and drop to be in the extension, you can do it after this release.  I'm telling you that the goal for this release is to get the text editing spot on
16:03:32 <jambo> drag and drop does not work cross-OS currently.  without you here, it is very difficult to fully discuss what its behavior should be.
16:04:10 <kennyluck> Okay.
16:04:52 <jambo> you should be devoting all of your time to getting an acceptable version of keyboard-based editing into the outline, which includes a consistent UI, which we originally outlined when we met with mc in june.
16:05:59 <kennyluck> I don't really remember what were discussed at that time. 
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16:06:19 <kennyluck> Hi, Joe.
16:06:27 <presbrey> hi kenny
16:06:56 <kennyluck> Uh...http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/wiki/test.rdf#test
16:06:58 <kennyluck> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/wiki/test.rdf#test
16:07:13 <jambo> the most important part of the entire meeting was that the UI needs to be consistent with what the user will expect from past experiences editing things.
16:07:37 <jambo> It was taken for granted that that also meant keeping input from node to node very consistent, in the way I just described to you.
16:07:44 <jambo> All I need from you is:
16:08:08 <jambo> 1) the ability to edit literals the way we discussed yesterday
16:08:13 <kennyluck> Joe, in that example, when you add a triple to bar. foo alters as well.
16:08:30 <jambo> 2) the ability to edit symbols the way we discussed today
16:08:56 <jambo> and 3) the ability to add completely new triples the way tim explained yesterday, keeping a rigid process
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16:10:21 <kennyluck> what is 3)? not achieved in current version?
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16:11:44 <jambo> timbl wanted the node labeled "TBD" to never really possibly appear to the user -- that is, if the user abandoned adding the new triple, no node labeled "TBD" would appear -- it would just go away
16:12:07 <presbrey> kenny, the only thing that needs to be changed for that bug is _statement_context; please don't use labeler or rewrite any other functions
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16:12:59 <ericP> presbrey, i looked at HTTP::Daemon. prob is that it isn't multi-threaded and it blocks on a read call without listening for new connections
16:13:10 <kennyluck> labeler is just a way to generate context.
16:13:39 <kennyluck> In my opinion, FP IFP > labeler (locally inverse functional property) > iterate over other triples.
16:13:44 <ericP> should be no problem if you use it from a library that doesn't simultaneously keep pipelines open while making new socket connections
16:13:57 <jambo> labeler cannot be used in the sparqlUpdate library, kenny.  timbl made this very clear yesterday.
16:14:42 <kennyluck> Anyway, I just wish Joe and timbl can agree on the algorithm and implement it as soon as possible.
16:15:11 <davidli> DIGlogger, pointer?
16:15:11 <davidli> See http://dig.csail.mit.edu/irc/dig/2007-08-09#T16-15-11
16:15:17 <presbrey> we do agree, Kenny.  no names, no labeler!
16:15:20 <jambo> the agreed already that the labeler will not be used in any context in sparql update.
16:15:33 <presbrey> thanks ericP.
16:16:14 <kennyluck> I'll leave you with that, Joe.
16:16:32 <ericP> presbrey, hmm, seems like i should be back it down to HTTP/1.0 to make it close the connections anyways
16:18:04 <presbrey> ok, that might work.  the only thing I usually miss in 1.1 is virtual hosting and we don't need that on the backend
16:19:10 <ericP> i wonder if the 1.0 switch disables that
16:19:34 <ericP> the client is still free to send the Host: header, and the server is free to respect it
16:20:13 <ericP> (though, as you point out, we won't notice the difference without writing explicit code)
16:24:35 <presbrey> got the issue tracker back up
16:25:42 <jambo> nice
16:25:43 <jambo> thanks
16:27:25 <kennyluck> Joe, in case you hadn't noticed, I altered sparqlUpdate.js a little bit yesterday.
16:28:10 <kennyluck> in insert_statement
16:30:10 <presbrey> why did you change update_statement back
16:30:30 <presbrey> can't you use delete_statement?
16:31:33 <kennyluck> I didn't do anything about update_statement.
16:31:44 <kennyluck> ?
16:32:28 <ericP> presbrey, updated algae -- seems to work
16:33:00 <presbrey> downgrading http? alright, nice fix =)
16:33:11 <ericP> just the pipelining
16:33:30 <ericP> otherwise i have to fix their silly code to use select more wisely
16:33:39 <presbrey> my mistake, kenny.  I diff'd against the wrong version
16:34:03 <presbrey> yeah I think its better though
16:34:22 <jambo> presbrey, the tracker is freaking out at me again :(
16:35:02 <ericP> interface should not be sub { $c = $d->accept(); $r = $c->get_request); ... } but instead { $c = $d->get_request); ... } so they can multiplex between accept and read
16:35:53 <presbrey> Jim, should be fixed again
16:36:03 <ericP> presbrey, do you use the response from INSERT or DELETE?
16:36:19 <jambo> okay
16:36:24 <presbrey> ericP, have it doing dump-default on insert/delete
16:36:49 <ericP> right now they appear to say "TRUE" all the time, regardless of whether they matched any or all of the existing data
16:37:42 <ericP> perhaps DELETE should return the number of triples actually deleted (= number found that matched the delete pattern)
16:37:58 <presbrey> ya might be nice
16:38:09 <presbrey> I want to add a query argument to reset the store as well, unless its already there?
16:38:55 <presbrey> and accordingly, a query argument to load a new file
16:39:26 <presbrey> (wow, and one to cause --dump-default)
16:39:50 <ericP> WHERE { ?s ?p ?o } DELETE { ?s ?p ?o }
16:39:51 <kennyluck> Joe and ericP, what is this message? http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/wiki/User:Kennyluck#
16:40:27 <presbrey> I think then I can get away with setting up a pool of 5-10 algae worker children on dig and RRing all the sparql queries for the whole wiki to them
16:41:03 <ericP> kennyluck, it's impossible to write <http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/wiki/Property:Assignment#> as a prefixed name/local name pair as it doesn't end in any valid localname character
16:41:24 <ericP> presbrey, do you want them to share data?
16:41:27 <ericP> 'cause that's work
16:41:50 <presbrey> no; I'll be writing them to disk and version-controlling them
16:43:57 <presbrey> still only one algae can work an endpoint at a time
16:45:17 <presbrey> since its sourcing from disk
16:45:53 <jambo> presbrey, should callbacks be firing properly from sparqlUpdate again? it doesn't look like davidli's are getting called
16:46:35 <presbrey> checking...
16:47:27 <jambo> we are trying sparql.set_object(kb.literal(newText, ""), function(u,s,e) { //somecode });
16:47:54 <presbrey> yeah syntax looks good
16:48:28 <jambo> so it should be getting called? we get no errors :(
16:48:44 <presbrey> still checking; just saying what you typed looked good
16:49:01 <jambo> ok
16:50:12 <presbrey> yes; callbacks work
16:50:36 <jambo> okay, back to work :P
16:51:05 <presbrey> its possible you are saying "this" and not getting what you expec
16:51:30 <presbrey> callbacks get window scope
16:52:25 <jambo> nope
16:52:28 <jambo> we'll keep looking into  it
16:53:25 <jambo> okay, it's getting called -- something on our end
16:53:39 <jambo> it didn't look like it was at first
17:00:10 <presbrey> ericP, is algae doing transactions?
17:00:50 <presbrey> oh nevermind; I'm doing that, I don't need it to too
17:09:22 <ericP> presbrey, pretty much, though there are holes in it
17:09:46 <ericP> added a new command line to make dumping the graph more attractive:
17:10:01 <ericP>  --stfu
17:10:01 <ericP>  -u http://mouni.local:8000/sparql/
17:10:01 <ericP>  --dump-default
17:10:02 <presbrey> yeah I realized since I'm processing sets of commands at a time and saving back to disk, I've already effectively taken care of transactions though inefficiently
17:10:22 <presbrey> by more attractive do you mean more easily parsed? =)
17:11:03 <ericP> yeah, stfu politely instructs it to suppress output other than the graph dump
17:14:03 <ericP> oh right, another piece of the puzzle: the "SHUTDOWN" command
17:14:16 <RalphS> diglogger, stop
17:15:04 <presbrey> cool
17:15:50 <RalphS> except that didn't actually close the logs
17:16:03 <ericP> presbrey, you in the building?
17:16:13 <presbrey> no
17:16:14 <ericP> campus? city?
17:16:19 <presbrey> central
17:16:50 <RalphS> diglogger, bye
17:16:50 <RalphS> I'm logging. I don't understand 'bye', RalphS.  Try /msg DIGlogger help
17:16:50 <presbrey> I can come in... do you want to hack on algae?
17:18:12 <RalphS> diglogger, sync
17:18:20 <ericP> presbrey, no need. i think we can do this here
17:18:27 <RalphS> ah!  sync does it :)
17:18:47 <ericP> i invoked algae as described above, then did some inserts, selects, deletes, selects, and finally a shutdown
17:18:56 <ericP> at the end, algae dumped the default graph
17:19:03 <presbrey> ah perfect, lets add a hook for that somewhere often
17:19:30 <RalphS> I hate to have to force it on a timer.
17:19:39 <RalphS> just 'cause of AFS
17:19:54 <RalphS> I should move the process to wherever the current httpd lives
17:20:31 <presbrey> what does sync do, flush?
17:20:39 <RalphS> close();open()
17:20:54 <RalphS> years ago I think I tried flush and that wasn't enough
17:21:22 <RalphS> somewhere afs isn't updating the volume info
17:22:14 <presbrey> could you have gotten the default graph in the interim or just at the end?
17:23:30 <RalphS> diglogger, sync
17:23:48 <presbrey> I think you should have it open/close every time it writes
17:24:22 <DIGlogger> DIGlogger (n=dig-logg@groups.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
17:24:22 <kubrick.freenode.net> topic is: DIG (http://dig.csail.mit.edu/ ) meets Mondays at 2:30pm (6 Aug looks unlikely, with tim on holiday)
17:24:22 <kubrick.freenode.net> Users on #dig: DIGlogger lkagal davidli ericP presbrey kennyluck yosi_s jambo RalphS sandro das05r eikeon sbp DanC 
17:24:23 <DIGlogger_1> DIGlogger_1 (n=dig-logg@groups.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
17:24:23 <kubrick.freenode.net> topic is: DIG (http://dig.csail.mit.edu/ ) meets Mondays at 2:30pm (6 Aug looks unlikely, with tim on holiday)
17:24:23 <kubrick.freenode.net> Users on #dig: DIGlogger_1 DIGlogger lkagal davidli ericP presbrey kennyluck yosi_s jambo RalphS sandro das05r eikeon sbp DanC 
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17:24:26 <RalphS> That'd be pretty boring
17:24:26 <RalphS> That'd be pretty boring
17:24:32 <presbrey> why, then I can tail-f on my local PC
17:24:32 <presbrey> why, then I can tail-f on my local PC
17:25:06 <RalphS> I expect close/open is reasonably expensive for afs
17:25:06 <RalphS> I expect close/open is reasonably expensive for afs
17:26:04 <DIGlogger> DIGlogger has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:17:53 <kennyluck> timbl, could you discuss with Joe about the algorithm for WHERE clause generation for bnode editing? 
20:18:18 <timbl> It seems we don't have a way of linkiing something to a web page.  We can't bring the web page into the tabulator because it is always just displayed qs a ffox page.
20:18:22 <timbl> Yes, sure
20:18:32 <timbl> is Joe there?
20:18:52 <kennyluck> timbl, with drag and drop, you can drag a tab.
20:20:27 <timbl> I tried that
20:21:03 <timbl> How do you drag from one tab into another, without  switching to the first tab?
20:21:11 <RalphS> RalphS has quit ("bye for today")
20:21:27 <kennyluck> this seems to be a feature in Firefox 3.
20:21:35 <kennyluck> cross tab drag and drop.
20:22:24 <timbl> How does that work? I tried hovering over a tab to make it pop up in the midel fo adrag but it doesn't
20:22:54 <timbl> What is the sequence of steps you take?
20:24:10 <jambo> sorry, what are we discussing?
20:24:27 <jambo> it kind of looks like this conversation started in the middle of something
20:26:03 <timbl> Two threads, one dormant about dscussing bnodes and WHERE with Joe Presbrey , one since "it seems" 16:17 about how to make a new statemnt with a web page as its object
20:27:17 <jambo> timbl, i'm really worried about trying to include drag and drop in this release because it seems like everything but outline editing is ready to go
20:27:53 <jambo> and including drag and drop in this release and developing it right now adds so many dimensions of bugs that i dont think it would ever get released
20:28:02 <jambo> drag and drop doesnt even work on windows / linux right now
20:28:33 <kennyluck> it doesn't work on my Mac now either, I don't know why.
20:29:11 <timbl> Ok, not to worry.  I wasn't suggesting we add anything, just noting current functionality.
20:29:30 <timbl> I know drag and drop worked at one point, but I agree with getting this release iout.
20:29:44 <jambo> timbl - when drag and drop worked, it only worked on mac
20:29:56 <timbl> Jambo, what are you/we waiting for for the release? Any major bugs left?
20:29:58 <jambo> firefox drag and drop is very picky, and not really made for working inside of HTMLDocument elements very well
20:30:28 <jambo> DIGLogger, pointer
20:30:28 <jambo> See http://dig.csail.mit.edu/irc/dig/2007-08-09#T20-30-28
20:30:59 <jambo> 16:08:08
20:31:02 <jambo> in the log
20:36:22 <timbl> Is the tracker back up?
20:37:05 <jambo> yes, for me
20:37:34 <timbl> Ok, let's use it to capture things to be done before the release
20:38:36 <jambo> are you going to write the posts ?
20:38:47 <timbl> Looking at what is there, am I right in saying that  223 "Alert boxes and other errors when adding a new property in outline mode"  is resolved?
20:39:11 <timbl> posts to the tracker? sure
20:39:54 <kennyluck> timbl, not right.
20:39:54 <timbl> Onw is,   Outline editing:   click on + immediately opens predicate input field
20:40:10 <timbl> no?
20:40:30 <timbl> kenny, why not?
20:40:41 <kennyluck> This works for about 20% chance of success for some reason.
20:40:50 <jambo> what works?
20:41:03 <kennyluck> "click on + immediaately opens predicate input field"
20:41:22 <timbl> Oh, good!
20:41:33 <jambo> no, hes saying that works 20%
20:41:50 <jambo> i think?
20:41:54 <jambo> though it seems to work fine for me
20:42:05 <kennyluck> huh? I don't know..
20:42:28 <timbl> 20% f teh time or 20% of the functionality?
20:43:08 <kennyluck> 20% of the time when I tested it, not for now. I don't know why.
20:43:10 <timbl> sorry, I missed that line
20:43:15 <kennyluck> I am confused.
20:43:22 <timbl> What happens the other 20%?
20:43:29 <timbl> 80%?
20:43:43 <kennyluck> Does that always work on your computers?
20:44:59 <timbl> If it is intermittent on yours you should fix it.. it may have a random machine-dependent.
20:45:07 <timbl> Worked first time for me
20:45:56 <jambo> timbl, i'm writing up my list of ui issues in the release path.
20:46:40 <timbl> In the tracker?
20:47:31 <jambo> yes
20:48:03 <jambo> you can move it around and chop it up if you want
20:48:16 <timbl> Great.  Understod yo have to leave at 5 jambo
20:55:00 <jambo> http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator/issue229
20:56:09 <timbl> These are things which need to be done before the release, from your PoV?
20:56:29 <timbl> ok, you said so int the title
20:56:33 <jambo> yes
20:57:27 <timbl> Those  make sense.
20:57:48 <timbl> I'm not sure about forcing the user to finish instead of leaving TBD
20:58:00 <timbl> TBD should maybe be a UI effect, not really in the store
20:58:10 <jambo> i really don't like that "TBD" is seemingly in the store
20:58:12 <kennyluck> I just don't understand why are these urgent. There are more apparent bugs like menu alignment and WHERE clause generation.
20:58:30 <jambo> where clause generation is not a bug, kenny.
20:58:40 <timbl> Well,  that is Jim's lisy
20:58:47 <timbl> Where clause generation?
20:59:00 <timbl> You mean identifying bnodes?
20:59:00 <kennyluck> why don't you try to edit this http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/wiki/test.rdf#test
20:59:07 <kennyluck> Yes, of course.
20:59:09 <jambo> if there is no good data that uniquely identifies a bnode, then there is not a way to identify it.  we have said that we will not be using labels
20:59:34 <kennyluck> At least in sparqlUpdate.js a error should be thrown.
20:59:49 <kennyluck> in the current status, wrong statements are set to the server.
21:00:09 <timbl> There are two levels of identifying a bnode:  1, identiufying  what it denotes  universally in the world, 2, identifying the bndoe in a graph which both sides of the communication have.
21:00:19 <timbl> 1) is nicest and more reusable
21:00:29 <timbl> 2) can be used in this case
21:00:34 <timbl> 1) needs IFP and FP
21:00:45 <timbl> 2) can use any subgraoh unique in the graph.
21:00:48 <jambo> okay, well i thought that the decision was to lock out changes to bnodes that can't be identified
21:01:08 <timbl> Yes, that was what I think we should do now for the release.
21:01:18 <timbl> Do we have any code which uses IFP and FP?
21:01:21 <kennyluck> anyway, an error has to be thrown from sparqlUpdate or I can't catch it.
21:01:38 <jambo> an error seems reasonable.
21:01:40 <kennyluck> I did use labeler, a useful subgraph.
21:01:47 <jambo> we will not be using labeler in this release.
21:02:00 <jambo> labeler will _not_ be included in the sparqlupdate code
21:02:06 <timbl> Jambo, because of  the code modularity?
21:02:20 <timbl> Kenny, you understadn?
21:02:40 <timbl> The sparql update code will not i in this release depend on the labeler
21:03:00 <jambo> yes, because of modularity.
21:03:20 <timbl> Kenny, you must respect that.
21:03:44 <kennyluck> Anyway, just throw an error for me.
21:04:11 <timbl> who just throw an error?
21:04:16 <jambo> it's not my code. you need to talk to joe.
21:04:28 <timbl> sarqlUpdate
21:04:37 <timbl> Jambo, you need to go
21:04:41 <timbl> Is Joe around?
21:04:41 <jambo> yes i do :(
21:04:50 <timbl> presumably not
21:04:52 <jambo> he didn't come into dig today, but he has been around
21:05:03 <timbl> You back tomorrow?
21:05:04 <presbrey> yes I'm around
21:05:05 <jambo> i assume he'll be noticing this soon presbrey presbrey presbrey
21:05:09 <presbrey> hehe thanks
21:05:13 <jambo> alright
21:05:17 <jambo> goodnight
21:05:17 <presbrey> *bing* *bing* *bing* !
21:05:19 <timbl> bing bing bing
21:05:25 <presbrey> yes indeed
21:05:27 <timbl> have good eveneing, Jim
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21:06:05 <timbl> So what is the current state of the sparwlUpdate code?
21:06:16 <timbl> Your code mainly Joe?
21:06:20 <timbl> All? 
21:06:39 <timbl> Does it currently have calls to the labeller?
21:06:48 <presbrey> it was hacked up quite a bit for add/delete when I was gone
21:07:10 <presbrey> I spent yesterday rewriting it to work asynchronously, and properly
21:07:33 <presbrey> passing callbacks errors so the UI can display them to user, etc
21:07:55 <presbrey> no, I removed calls to the labeler
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21:09:55 <timbl> Do you do any bnode identification?
21:10:40 <presbrey> no
21:10:45 <timbl> ahh ... "            // node is not uniquely identifiable
21:10:46 <timbl>             // do some IFP magic but for now,
21:10:46 <timbl> "
21:10:49 <presbrey> exactly
21:11:02 <timbl> I gather Kenny needs yo to throw an error then?
21:12:45 <timbl> (why "while (1 && attempts++<10)"?)   1 &&
21:12:46 <timbl> ?
21:13:44 <presbrey> the 1 && is not meant to be there
21:13:59 <presbrey> go ahead and delete
21:17:03 <timbl> I'm confused.   help me look at this fn
21:17:18 <timbl> s starts out as a param, a statement.
21:17:44 <timbl> Then s is set  to the set of statements which are incomming linkks to s.subject
21:19:09 <timbl> when th loop goes around, though, won't s be an array and not a statement and so the s.subject won't work?
21:19:51 <presbrey> hmm, yep.
21:21:23 <timbl> it seems to do stuff only when there is only one incoming link, wheras  you can identify bnodes when there are many.
21:21:59 <kennyluck> I made a simple counter example for this algorithm this morning. http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/wiki/test.rdf#test
21:22:05 <presbrey> yeah you're right.  good find.  do we do this anywhere else in the code?
21:22:30 <timbl> What does the function do?   Add context to define a bnode?
21:22:44 <presbrey> haha, its doesn't really look like an algorithm anymore, it only goes around once!
21:23:00 <presbrey> yes, or a non
21:23:14 <timbl> (where is the test for a bnode?  Other things don't need context)
21:23:32 <timbl> non?
21:23:55 <presbrey> I meant any, but yes, there isn't a check if its a bnode and there should be that too
21:24:19 <timbl> There is python code which does it but it is probably rathyer heavy for this
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21:25:13 <kennyluck> Well, we can send all the triples around the bnode as the context clause.
21:25:48 <timbl> If one is an IFP or FP we don't have to send others.
21:26:04 <kennyluck> Sure.
21:27:16 <kennyluck> I just think it's sad that if Tabulator can't even edit one's foaf.
21:27:35 <timbl> In a foaf file , what bnodes are there?
21:27:57 <kennyluck> for people who don't have URIs
21:28:23 <timbl> (a) you can give them URIs locally in your fiile, like   Berners-Lee/card#amy
21:28:44 <timbl> (b) With FOAF you always have a mailbox or mailbox checksum which is an IFP.
21:28:52 <timbl> That's how FOAF works.
21:29:05 <timbl> and (c) people should ahve URIs! 
21:29:08 <timbl> have
21:29:33 <kennyluck> I thought that Joe doesn't like (a).
21:29:34 <presbrey> yep kenny, it should definitely get fixed
21:29:52 <timbl> it?
21:30:29 <presbrey> with regards to "Tabulator [should be able to] edit one's foaf"
21:32:36 <presbrey> I actually don't have any preferences at all on anything except labeler in sparqlupdate in this release Kenny.  I've never heard of (a)
21:36:05 <timbl> Ok, so in future we can generate localids for new nodes like new friends.  bUt for now we are talking about bnodes
21:37:09 <presbrey> right 
21:37:18 <presbrey> so do you want me to work on this or Kenny or you?
21:37:46 <timbl> The algorithm is to find a an IFP or FP whcih is to something which is node a bnode, or failing that to find one which (is an IFP or FP to something which )^n  is node a bnode
21:38:06 <timbl> I'm not sufficiently present.
21:38:22 <presbrey> kenny, can you do that without labeler?
21:38:26 <timbl> I'd like you to, Joe.
21:38:34 <kennyluck> Yes, please.
21:39:30 <timbl> I'm not sure what elese you ahve on your plte, Joe. 
21:39:33 <timbl> plate
21:39:50 <timbl> I think Kenny probably has UI things to polish, the rest in  Jim's list.
21:40:14 <timbl> Kenny what was your "yes, please" to?
21:40:25 <kennyluck> Joe.
21:40:37 <presbrey> I'm working on the wiki, getting algae performing better, pooling requests to them
21:41:11 <presbrey> I think it would be really cool to have a wiki node in the root in this release so people can play with editing
21:41:34 <presbrey> so I was working on making roundtrips faster
21:41:46 <kennyluck> sounds nice.
21:41:51 <timbl> I could look at it this evening, but tomorrow I won't have time, then we are moving on, to the UK, and  things will be hectic and I will be rarely in touch
21:41:54 <presbrey> most of the delay now is due to algae forking
21:42:22 <presbrey> ok thats fine; I'll look at it
21:42:23 <timbl> I agree getting it snappy is going to make everyone happier!
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21:42:44 <presbrey> also, the UI needs to gray out an edit you have made until it hears back from the server whether it was successful or not
21:42:58 <presbrey> <input disabed="disabled /> or the like
21:43:13 <presbrey> how does tabulator identify FPs in the store?
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21:44:04 <kennyluck> uh...kb.each(undefined,rdf('type'),owl('FunctionalProperty'))
21:44:09 <timbl>  kb.whether(x, ns.rdf('type'), ns.owl('FunctionalProperty')
21:44:18 <kennyluck> whether?
21:44:55 <timbl> I thought soemoen ahd added whetehr as  a boolean 
21:45:07 <timbl> but anyway faster to use each and put them in an assoc. array
21:45:08 <kennyluck> It's me actually. :)
21:45:34 <timbl> I thought so.
21:45:47 <timbl> I think whetehr is a good addition
21:45:55 <timbl> I couldn't think of a good name for it
21:46:06 <timbl> better than  'contains'
21:46:21 <timbl> or 'holds' I think.
21:46:23 <timbl> But anyway
21:46:55 <timbl> I would cache an associateive array of the IFPs and FPs when the query thiung starts.
21:47:38 <timbl> I'll rough sothing out and check it  in and elave it wiht you, Joe?
21:47:52 <presbrey> ok
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