IRC log of dig on 2007-09-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

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11:43:37 [kubrick.freenode.net]

topic is: Tabulator Extension alpha version released -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Aug/0261.html ; congratulations Tabulator Team!

11:43:37 [kubrick.freenode.net]

Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS timbl sandro eikeon sbp jambo DanC Zakim das05r

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16:05:35 [yosi_s]

timbl, on sep 9, you made log:this forAll a syntax error without making sure there were no tests still using it

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16:27:02 [DanC]

yes, well yosi_s , the executive is the agent of change in more organizations than just DIG ;-)

16:28:21 [DanC]

I wonder what prompted timbl to commit something in swap, though

16:28:41 [yosi_s]

timbl was adding @base to n3

16:29:57 [DanC]

well, there's some person time; one has to remember to look at the results of the computer time

16:31:33 [DanC]

I still get mail and blog comments about PAW/cwm stuff...

16:34:22 [DanC]

hmm... the blog comment I remember is hard to find because there's so much stuff in http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/admin/comment ... are we getting spammed again? ...

16:48:35 [DanC]

finally found it...

16:48:41 [DanC]

"You seem to be using a version of cwm from 2004; much of the proof work is newer than that. We're overdue for a release; meanwhile, see the instructions for checking out the latest development version." -- http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/179#comment-16873

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17:42:18 [DanC]

yosi_s, do you know how to get CVS to show changes to swap in newest-first order?

17:42:30 [DanC]

`cvs -n log` seems to be sorted by file

17:44:39 [DanC]

hmm... it does oldest-1st...

17:44:45 [DanC]

but it can start at some date...

17:45:44 [DanC]

going back to 2007/07/01 ...

17:45:48 [DanC]

looks like timbl worked on pyjs...

17:46:14 [DanC]

yosi does "make use of turtle tests" ...

17:46:39 [DanC]

hmm... "@this tests go negative"

17:47:34 [yosi_s]

timbl did not change delta/detailed.tests#t001

17:48:32 [DanC]

yosi does some DAWG/SPARQL testing stuff around 2007/07/31 ...

17:49:21 [DanC]

ugh... you've been hanging around timbl too much or something, yosi. a whole pile of changes get summarized as "A month of changes"

17:50:18 [yosi_s]

I try not to do that; sometimes, the changes pile up and are a whole host of little things

17:51:16 [DanC]

when I'm ready to commit, I do cvs diff >,changes and then I edit ,changes into a summary and then I use that as the commit message

18:14:54 [timbl]

Meeting in 15 mins

18:30:13 [Zakim]

DIG_weekly()2:30PM has now started

18:30:20 [Zakim]

+MIT531

18:32:01 [timbl]

__________________________________________________

18:32:36 [timbl]

Zakim, who is here?

18:32:36 [Zakim]

On the phone I see MIT531

18:32:37 [Zakim]

On IRC I see presbrey, lkagal, sandro, yosi_s, timbl, djweitzner, DIGlogger, RalphS, sbp, jambo, DanC, Zakim, das05r

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18:32:47 [Zakim]

+Danny

18:33:35 [presbrey]

hi danny

18:33:41 [djweitzner]

hi Joe!

18:34:11 [timbl]

Joe, you can be physically present?

18:34:17 [timbl]

Jim, Oshani?

18:34:27 [presbrey]

no

18:34:52 [timbl]

agenda+ Going around the table

18:34:54 [yosi_s]

Zakim, who is in MIT531?

18:34:54 [Zakim]

MIT531 has only MIT531

18:34:57 [timbl]

10?!

18:35:03 [timbl]

agenda?

18:36:07 [yosi_s]

Zakim, MIT531 also has Ralph

18:36:07 [Zakim]

+Ralph; got it

18:37:11 [timbl]

Zakim, drop agenda item 3 , 4, 9,

18:37:11 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'drop agenda item 3 , 4, 9,', timbl

18:37:19 [Zakim]

+DanC

18:37:31 [timbl]

zakim, agenda order 10

18:37:31 [Zakim]

ok, timbl

18:37:46 [timbl]

___________________

18:37:51 [RalphS]

zakim, drop agenda 3, 4

18:37:51 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'drop agenda 3, 4', RalphS

18:37:51 [timbl]

Zakim, who is here?

18:37:53 [Zakim]

On the phone I see MIT531, Danny, DanC

18:37:55 [Zakim]

MIT531 has MIT531, Ralph

18:37:56 [Zakim]

On IRC I see roberth_, presbrey, lkagal, sandro, yosi_s, timbl, djweitzner, DIGlogger, RalphS, sbp, jambo, DanC, Zakim, das05r

18:38:11 [DanC]

Zakim, drop item 3

18:38:12 [RalphS]

zakim, mit531 also has TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu

18:38:12 [Zakim]

agendum 3, introducing Oshani, dropped

18:38:13 [Zakim]

+TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu; got it

18:38:16 [DanC]

Zakim, drop item 4

18:38:16 [Zakim]

agendum 4, upcoming publication opportuniies etc, dropped

18:38:59 [DanC]

"... to W3C [what?]"

18:39:14 [RalphS]

s/[what?]/workflow tools/

18:39:24 [DanC]

tx

18:39:49 [timbl]

IET in London

18:39:57 [timbl]

ex-IEE

18:41:18 [DanC]

http://swig.xmlhack.com/2007/09/20/2007-09-20.html#1190314939.894127

18:41:56 [timbl]

to W3c Technical Architecture Group meeting

18:42:02 [timbl]

(with DanC among others)

18:42:07 [djweitzner]

http://www.infosci.cornell.edu/

18:43:05 [DanC]

agenda + wikigenes user registration: OpenID?

18:43:06 [timbl]

Robert: I am implemented user registration system for wikigenes, wondering about adding a Capcha

18:43:21 [timbl]

DanC: How about using OpenID?

18:43:36 [timbl]

Robert: I don't know how this would help

18:43:43 [timbl]

... it is too open for me.

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18:44:31 [timbl]

agenda+ OpenID and FOAF and RRDF and Wikigeness

18:45:54 [timbl]

Lalana: I didn't to do much impl... 6.898 class and 6.805 fill-in for danny who was in London.

18:47:58 [timbl]

Yosi: looking at the probem of telling someone why a rule did *not* fire.

18:48:21 [timbl]

Tim: A whole ara of math in a way

18:48:58 [DanC]

(I'm still not clear on whether TAMI is looking at "why not?" reasoning, or just checking proofs of "why?". I wonder if it's worth discussing here.)

18:49:09 [timbl]

Yosi: Chris has tried to make the same change to eth TMS in scheme, AMORD control, working, just as I needed that sort of thing on the pyrthon codebase for this .

18:50:31 [djweitzner]

:

18:50:31 [djweitzner]

(I'm still not clear on whether TAMI is looking at "why not?" reasoning, or just checking proofs of "why?". I wonder if it's worth discussing here.)" to TAMI meeting this week, if possible

18:50:37 [timbl]

Yosi: Tried to see how mah=uch damage Tim has caused by excluding things with this log:forAll a parse error.

18:53:32 [DanC]

agenda + W3C workflow project

18:53:36 [timbl]

agenda+ What do we mean by W3C workshflow?

18:53:41 [DanC]

agenda -13

18:54:22 [DanC]

lkagal, you didn't mention http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/Papers/AIMagazine/fractal-paper.pdf ; was that on purpose?

18:54:32 [timbl]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

18:54:32 [Zakim]

On the phone I see MIT531, Danny, DanC

18:54:33 [Zakim]

MIT531 has MIT531, Ralph, TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu

18:54:50 [lkagal]

No DanC, I forgot.

18:54:52 [yosi_s]

Zakim, MIT531 just left MIT531

18:54:52 [Zakim]

-MIT531; got it

18:55:39 [DanC]

(wondering if this web science meeting is talked about in public... I don't see anything on http://webscience.org/ )

18:55:48 [timbl]

(no)

18:57:34 [DanC]

http://norman.walsh.name/2007/09/19/sailing

18:58:01 [djweitzner]

+1 to sailing and Web Science

18:58:37 [DanC]

From: Ryan Lee <ryanlee@csail.mit.edu>

18:58:37 [DanC]

To: DIG group <diggers@csail.mit.edu>

18:58:37 [DanC]

Subject: [Diggers] Akismet for Breadcrumbs

18:58:37 [DanC]

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:34:23 -0400 (09:34 CDT)

18:59:45 [RalphS]

who pays?

18:59:56 [timbl]

I noted variosu things ... doapspace ... http://bradfitz.com/social-graph-problem/social-graph.pdf ... )

19:00:18 [RalphS]

DanC: Ryan is proposing a for-pay service that evaluates whether an openID identity corresponds to a spammer [or not]

19:00:23 [RalphS]

Ralph: who pays?

19:01:06 [DanC]

(see also item 9)

19:01:14 [timbl]

agenda+ openId and OUT bloog and FOAF and RDF vs Ryan's for-pat whitelist

19:02:33 [DanC]

(abondon? I dunno.)

19:02:52 [timbl]

Danny: Oshani is currently getting up to speed on TAMI, will later work on FOAF +

19:04:47 [DanC]

I mentioned I did some calendar sync hacking. Actually, I spent enough time on it, that under my "no more undocumented, untested code" new year's resolution, I wrote "Soccer schedules, flight itineraries, timezones, and python web frameworks" http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/201

19:04:58 [DanC]

http://homer.w3.org/%7Econnolly/projects/palmagent/

19:06:41 [timbl]

Tim: Oshani could just code it up ... I was sugestin she just code up friend^n

19:06:49 [timbl]

The UI is the tricky bit

19:07:42 [timbl]

She and I have gotten pas this wehn we talked

19:08:15 [RalphS]

experiment: time(foaf:knows^n) < 24 hours

19:08:25 [RalphS]

^n s.t. ...

19:12:11 [DanC]

some policy options: (a) your openid page has a high google pagerank (b) you're known to lists.w3.org for more than a couple weeks somehow (b) you have wikipedia credentials (c) you have credentials in the foaf world, including advogato and livejournal

19:17:37 [DanC]

(does "does all this semantic web stuff actually work as it's been long hypothesized?" count as a research question?)

19:19:05 [DanC]

ok, that's a more focussed research question: can the blog spam problem be addressed with policy-aware semantic web techniques?

19:19:52 [DanC]

... starting in the case of a research group. for bonus points, scale up to huge community sites and/or political candidate blogs

19:20:58 [DanC]

DJW: I'm willing to talk this over with Oshani...

19:21:38 [DanC]

(yes, this meeting is 90minutes in my calendar)

19:21:52 [timbl]

agenda?

19:22:11 [presbrey]

are there any policy-based anti-spam engines already running?

19:22:13 [DanC]

agenda -9

19:22:20 [DanC]

agenda -11

19:22:39 [RalphS]

zakim, list agenda

19:22:39 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:

19:22:40 [Zakim]

10. Going around the table [from timbl]

19:22:42 [Zakim]

1. Planning technical areas of work, roadmaps [from timbl]

19:22:44 [Zakim]

6. TAMI presentation to DIG [from DanC]

19:22:45 [Zakim]

7. review the data encoded in wikigenes and how it could be modeled in RDF [from timbl via DanC]

19:22:47 [Zakim]

8. Zakim data, contact, foaf, RDF calendar/vcalendar/hcalendar [from DanC]

19:22:49 [Zakim]

12. OpenID and FOAF and RRDF and Wikigeness [from timbl]

19:22:51 [Zakim]

14. What do we mean by W3C workshflow? [from timbl]

19:22:52 [Zakim]

15. openId and OUT bloog and FOAF and RDF vs Ryan's for-pat whitelist [from timbl]

19:27:25 [RalphS]

tools shopping list: cwm, tabulator, TAMI reasoner[s]

19:27:38 [RalphS]

... tabulator library [complete SPARQL implementation?]

19:27:45 [lkagal]

MIT class list policy : Personally identifiable information from class lists and prerequisite reports may not be used for other purposes nor may it be disseminated further, except for appropriate exchanges with other individuals who have the same access privileges. Before posting student information to any web site, you should read section 7.2 of MIT's Student Information Policy.

19:28:09 [DanC]

(hmm... I'm not inclined to spend DIG resources doing QA of W3C specs. If there's a research problem, very well, but not just i-dotting and t-crossing.)

19:28:22 [DanC]

(re "full SPARQL support" in tabulator)

19:28:24 [RalphS]

TAMI reasoner: AIR

19:28:33 [RalphS]

... one in python and one in scheme

19:28:34 [timbl]

air.py air.sch

19:28:41 [RalphS]

... AMORD In RDF

19:31:02 [timbl]

http://bradfitz.com/social-graph-problem/social-graph.pdf

19:31:13 [DanC]

(the microformats community has some emerging claim-verification norms ...)

19:31:52 [DanC]

http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists#Services_with_XFN_rel.3D.22me.22_supporting_identity_consolidation

19:33:54 [RalphS]

zakim, lalana has left mit531

19:33:54 [Zakim]

-Lalana; got it

19:34:02 [DanC]

http://www.sixapart.com/about/news/2007/09/were_opening_th.html

19:35:01 [DanC]

hmm... that's by David Recordon , not bradfitz

19:36:46 [djweitzner]

Can you now find my openId from http://www.w3.org/People/djweitzner/public/foaf.rdf

19:36:54 [djweitzner]

?

19:37:40 [DanC]

yup. http://www.w3.org/People/Weitzner.html/

19:38:09 [djweitzner]

great

19:38:10 [DanC]

I suspect that last / is a typo, djweitzner

19:38:22 [djweitzner]

oops

19:38:24 [djweitzner]

yes

19:38:43 [presbrey]

is everyone using verisign?

19:38:48 [djweitzner]

I am

19:38:56 [DanC]

I am also.

19:39:07 [DanC]

I'm interested to try the MIT openid service, though.

19:39:51 [DanC]

1 week hence is 1 Oct...

19:59:08 [yosi_s]

timbl, within 3 steps of you are 1468 people

20:07:50 [Zakim]

-Danny

20:12:02 [Zakim]

-MIT531

20:14:38 [Zakim]

DIG_weekly()2:30PM has ended

20:14:39 [Zakim]

Attendees were MIT531, Danny, Ralph, DanC, TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu

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20:24:54 [presbrey]

I was thinking more along the lines of a spamassassin plugin; something with a huge audience

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