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11:43:37 <kubrick.freenode.net> topic is: Tabulator Extension alpha version released -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Aug/0261.html ; congratulations Tabulator Team!
11:43:37 <kubrick.freenode.net> Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS timbl sandro eikeon sbp jambo DanC Zakim das05r 
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16:05:35 <yosi_s> timbl, on sep 9, you made log:this forAll a syntax error without making sure there were no tests still using it
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16:27:02 <DanC> yes, well yosi_s , the executive is the agent of change in more organizations than just DIG ;-)
16:28:21 <DanC> I wonder what prompted timbl to commit something in swap, though
16:28:41 <yosi_s> timbl was adding @base to n3
16:29:57 <DanC> well, there's some person time; one has to remember to look at the results of the computer time
16:31:33 <DanC> I still get mail and blog comments about PAW/cwm stuff...
16:34:22 <DanC> hmm... the blog comment I remember is hard to find because there's so much stuff in http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/admin/comment ... are we getting spammed again? ...
16:48:35 <DanC> finally found it...
16:48:41 <DanC> "You seem to be using a version of cwm from 2004; much of the proof work is newer than that. We're overdue for a release; meanwhile, see the instructions for checking out the latest development version." -- http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/179#comment-16873
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17:42:18 <DanC> yosi_s, do you know how to get CVS to show changes to swap in newest-first order?
17:42:30 <DanC> `cvs -n log` seems to be sorted by file
17:44:39 <DanC> hmm... it does oldest-1st...
17:44:45 <DanC> but it can start at some date...
17:45:44 <DanC> going back to 2007/07/01 ...
17:45:48 <DanC> looks like timbl worked on pyjs...
17:46:14 <DanC> yosi does "make use of turtle tests" ...
17:46:39 <DanC> hmm... "@this tests go negative"
17:47:34 <yosi_s> timbl did not change delta/detailed.tests#t001
17:48:32 <DanC> yosi does some DAWG/SPARQL testing stuff around 2007/07/31 ...
17:49:21 <DanC> ugh... you've been hanging around timbl too much or something, yosi. a whole pile of changes get summarized as "A month of changes"
17:50:18 <yosi_s> I try not to do that; sometimes, the changes pile up and are a whole host of little things
17:51:16 <DanC> when I'm ready to commit, I do cvs diff >,changes and then I edit ,changes into a summary and then I use that as the commit message
18:14:54 <timbl> Meeting in 15 mins
18:30:13 <Zakim> DIG_weekly()2:30PM has now started
18:30:20 <Zakim> +MIT531
18:32:01 <timbl> __________________________________________________
18:32:36 <timbl> Zakim, who is here?
18:32:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT531
18:32:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see presbrey, lkagal, sandro, yosi_s, timbl, djweitzner, DIGlogger, RalphS, sbp, jambo, DanC, Zakim, das05r
18:32:43 <roberth_> roberth_ (n=hoffmann@31-33-44.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #dig
18:32:47 <Zakim> +Danny
18:33:35 <presbrey> hi danny
18:33:41 <djweitzner> hi Joe!
18:34:11 <timbl> Joe, you can be physically present?
18:34:17 <timbl> Jim, Oshani?
18:34:27 <presbrey> no
18:34:52 <timbl> agenda+ Going around the table
18:34:54 <yosi_s> Zakim, who is in MIT531?
18:34:54 <Zakim> MIT531 has only MIT531
18:34:57 <timbl> 10?!
18:35:03 <timbl> agenda?
18:36:07 <yosi_s> Zakim, MIT531 also has Ralph
18:36:07 <Zakim> +Ralph; got it
18:37:11 <timbl> Zakim, drop agenda item 3 , 4, 9,
18:37:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drop agenda item 3 , 4, 9,', timbl
18:37:19 <Zakim> +DanC
18:37:31 <timbl> zakim,  agenda order 10
18:37:31 <Zakim> ok, timbl
18:37:46 <timbl> ___________________
18:37:51 <RalphS> zakim, drop agenda 3, 4
18:37:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drop agenda 3, 4', RalphS
18:37:51 <timbl> Zakim, who is here?
18:37:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT531, Danny, DanC
18:37:55 <Zakim> MIT531 has MIT531, Ralph
18:37:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see roberth_, presbrey, lkagal, sandro, yosi_s, timbl, djweitzner, DIGlogger, RalphS, sbp, jambo, DanC, Zakim, das05r
18:38:11 <DanC> Zakim, drop item 3
18:38:12 <RalphS> zakim, mit531 also has TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu
18:38:12 <Zakim> agendum 3, introducing Oshani, dropped
18:38:13 <Zakim> +TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu; got it
18:38:16 <DanC> Zakim, drop item 4
18:38:16 <Zakim> agendum 4, upcoming publication opportuniies etc, dropped
18:38:59 <DanC> "... to W3C [what?]"
18:39:14 <RalphS> s/[what?]/workflow tools/
18:39:24 <DanC> tx
18:39:49 <timbl> IET in London
18:39:57 <timbl> ex-IEE
18:41:18 <DanC> http://swig.xmlhack.com/2007/09/20/2007-09-20.html#1190314939.894127
18:41:56 <timbl> to W3c Technical Architecture Group meeting
18:42:02 <timbl> (with DanC among others)
18:42:07 <djweitzner> http://www.infosci.cornell.edu/
18:43:05 <DanC> agenda + wikigenes user registration: OpenID?
18:43:06 <timbl> Robert: I am implemented user registration system for wikigenes, wondering about adding a Capcha
18:43:21 <timbl> DanC: How about using OpenID?
18:43:36 <timbl> Robert: I don't know how this would help
18:43:43 <timbl> ... it is too open for me.
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18:44:31 <timbl> agenda+ OpenID and FOAF and RRDF and Wikigeness
18:45:54 <timbl> Lalana:  I didn't to do much impl...  6.898 class and 6.805 fill-in for danny who was in London.
18:47:58 <timbl> Yosi: looking at the probem of telling someone why a rule did *not* fire.
18:48:21 <timbl> Tim: A whole ara of math in  a way
18:48:58 <DanC> (I'm still not clear on whether TAMI is looking at "why not?" reasoning, or just checking proofs of "why?". I wonder if it's worth discussing here.)
18:49:09 <timbl> Yosi:  Chris has tried to make the same change to eth TMS in scheme, AMORD control, working, just as I needed that sort of thing on the pyrthon codebase for this .
18:50:31 <djweitzner> :
18:50:31 <djweitzner> (I'm still not clear on whether TAMI is looking at "why not?" reasoning, or just checking proofs of "why?". I wonder if it's worth discussing here.)" to TAMI meeting this week, if possible
18:50:37 <timbl> Yosi:  Tried to see how mah=uch damage Tim has caused by excluding things with this log:forAll   a parse error.
18:53:32 <DanC> agenda + W3C workflow project
18:53:36 <timbl> agenda+ What do we mean by W3C workshflow?
18:53:41 <DanC> agenda -13
18:54:22 <DanC> lkagal, you didn't mention http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/Papers/AIMagazine/fractal-paper.pdf ; was that on purpose?
18:54:32 <timbl> Zakim, who is on the phone?
18:54:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT531, Danny, DanC
18:54:33 <Zakim> MIT531 has MIT531, Ralph, TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu
18:54:50 <lkagal> No DanC, I forgot. 
18:54:52 <yosi_s> Zakim, MIT531 just left MIT531
18:54:52 <Zakim> -MIT531; got it
18:55:39 <DanC> (wondering if this web science meeting is talked about in public... I don't see anything on http://webscience.org/ )
18:55:48 <timbl> (no)
18:57:34 <DanC> http://norman.walsh.name/2007/09/19/sailing
18:58:01 <djweitzner> +1 to sailing and Web Science
18:58:37 <DanC> From: 	Ryan Lee <ryanlee@csail.mit.edu>
18:58:37 <DanC> To: 	DIG group <diggers@csail.mit.edu>
18:58:37 <DanC> Subject: 	[Diggers] Akismet for Breadcrumbs
18:58:37 <DanC> Date: 	Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:34:23 -0400 (09:34 CDT)
18:59:45 <RalphS> who pays?
18:59:56 <timbl> I noted variosu things ... doapspace ... http://bradfitz.com/social-graph-problem/social-graph.pdf ... )
19:00:18 <RalphS> DanC: Ryan is proposing a for-pay service that evaluates whether an openID identity corresponds to a spammer [or not]
19:00:23 <RalphS> Ralph: who pays?
19:01:06 <DanC> (see also item 9)
19:01:14 <timbl> agenda+   openId and OUT  bloog and FOAF and RDF vs  Ryan's for-pat whitelist
19:02:33 <DanC> (abondon? I dunno.)
19:02:52 <timbl> Danny:  Oshani is currently getting up to speed on TAMI, will later work on FOAF + 
19:04:47 <DanC> I mentioned I did some calendar sync hacking. Actually, I spent enough time on it, that under my "no more undocumented, untested code" new year's resolution, I wrote "Soccer schedules, flight itineraries, timezones, and python web frameworks" http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/201
19:04:58 <DanC> http://homer.w3.org/%7Econnolly/projects/palmagent/
19:06:41 <timbl> Tim:  Oshani could just code it up   ... I was sugestin  she just code up  friend^n  
19:06:49 <timbl> The UI is the tricky bit
19:07:42 <timbl> She and I have gotten pas this wehn we talked
19:08:15 <RalphS> experiment: time(foaf:knows^n) < 24 hours
19:08:25 <RalphS> ^n s.t. ...
19:12:11 <DanC> some policy options: (a) your openid page has a high google pagerank (b) you're known to lists.w3.org for more than a couple weeks somehow (b) you have wikipedia credentials (c) you have credentials in the foaf world, including advogato and livejournal
19:17:37 <DanC> (does "does all this semantic web stuff actually work as it's been long hypothesized?" count as a research question?)
19:19:05 <DanC> ok, that's a more focussed research question: can the blog spam problem be addressed with policy-aware semantic web techniques?
19:19:52 <DanC> ... starting in the case of a research group. for bonus points, scale up to huge community sites and/or political candidate blogs
19:20:58 <DanC> DJW: I'm willing to talk this over with Oshani...
19:21:38 <DanC> (yes, this meeting is 90minutes in my calendar)
19:21:52 <timbl> agenda?
19:22:11 <presbrey> are there any policy-based anti-spam engines already running?
19:22:13 <DanC> agenda -9
19:22:20 <DanC> agenda -11
19:22:39 <RalphS> zakim, list agenda
19:22:39 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
19:22:40 <Zakim> 10. Going around the table [from timbl]
19:22:42 <Zakim> 1. Planning technical areas of work, roadmaps [from timbl]
19:22:44 <Zakim> 6. TAMI presentation to DIG [from DanC]
19:22:45 <Zakim> 7. review the data encoded in  wikigenes and how it could be modeled in RDF [from timbl via DanC]
19:22:47 <Zakim> 8. Zakim data, contact, foaf, RDF calendar/vcalendar/hcalendar [from DanC]
19:22:49 <Zakim> 12. OpenID and FOAF and RRDF and Wikigeness [from timbl]
19:22:51 <Zakim> 14. What do we mean by W3C workshflow? [from timbl]
19:22:52 <Zakim> 15. openId and OUT  bloog and FOAF and RDF vs  Ryan's for-pat whitelist [from timbl]
19:27:25 <RalphS> tools shopping list: cwm, tabulator, TAMI reasoner[s]
19:27:38 <RalphS> ... tabulator library [complete SPARQL implementation?]
19:27:45 <lkagal> MIT class list policy : Personally identifiable information from class lists and prerequisite reports may not be used for other purposes nor may it be disseminated further, except for appropriate exchanges with other individuals who have the same access privileges. Before posting student information to any web site, you should read section 7.2 of MIT's Student Information Policy.
19:28:09 <DanC> (hmm... I'm not inclined to spend DIG resources doing QA of W3C specs. If there's a research problem, very well, but not just i-dotting and t-crossing.)
19:28:22 <DanC> (re "full SPARQL support" in tabulator)
19:28:24 <RalphS> TAMI reasoner: AIR
19:28:33 <RalphS> ... one in python and one in scheme
19:28:34 <timbl> air.py air.sch
19:28:41 <RalphS> ... AMORD In RDF
19:31:02 <timbl> http://bradfitz.com/social-graph-problem/social-graph.pdf
19:31:13 <DanC> (the microformats community has some emerging claim-verification norms ...)
19:31:52 <DanC> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists#Services_with_XFN_rel.3D.22me.22_supporting_identity_consolidation
19:33:54 <RalphS> zakim, lalana has left mit531
19:33:54 <Zakim> -Lalana; got it
19:34:02 <DanC> http://www.sixapart.com/about/news/2007/09/were_opening_th.html
19:35:01 <DanC> hmm... that's by David Recordon , not bradfitz
19:36:46 <djweitzner> Can you now find my openId from http://www.w3.org/People/djweitzner/public/foaf.rdf
19:36:54 <djweitzner> ?
19:37:40 <DanC> yup. http://www.w3.org/People/Weitzner.html/
19:38:09 <djweitzner> great
19:38:10 <DanC> I suspect that last / is a typo, djweitzner 
19:38:22 <djweitzner> oops
19:38:24 <djweitzner> yes
19:38:43 <presbrey> is everyone using verisign?
19:38:48 <djweitzner> I am
19:38:56 <DanC> I am also.
19:39:07 <DanC> I'm interested to try the MIT openid service, though.
19:39:51 <DanC> 1 week hence is 1 Oct...
19:59:08 <yosi_s> timbl, within 3 steps of you are 1468 people
20:07:50 <Zakim> -Danny
20:12:02 <Zakim> -MIT531
20:14:38 <Zakim> DIG_weekly()2:30PM has ended
20:14:39 <Zakim> Attendees were MIT531, Danny, Ralph, DanC, TimBL, Robert, Lalana, Yosi, Katsu
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20:24:54 <presbrey> I was thinking more along the lines of a spamassassin plugin; something with a huge audience
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