IRC log of dig on 2008-08-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

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11:44:54 [kubrick.freenode.net]
topic is: Yosi's thesis presentation 1-Aug, 11am, G531
11:44:54 [kubrick.freenode.net]
Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS danbri harveyj_ ericP _Tristan DanC sandro daniel-soton
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16:10:34 [DanC]
hmm... upgrading from Xcode 1.1 to 2.5; the latest, 3.1, runs only on OS X 10.5. time to replace my laptop? it's a powerbook g4, running os x 10.4
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16:55:40 [timbl]
Sounds like it might be
16:56:11 [timbl]
Is that a powerPC machine?
17:07:24 [DanC]
yes
17:08:46 [timbl]
I think an upgrade t an Intel machine is probably a good idea
17:09:06 [timbl]
And you have to have 10.5 for time machine :)
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18:32:05 [lkagal]
DIG meeting starts now ...
18:32:07 [stunes]
stunes has changed the topic to: DIG meeting 18-Aug
18:32:20 [stunes]
random question... how do you un-set the topic on an IRC channel?
18:32:37 [timbl_]
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18:32:45 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: ""
18:32:50 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: .
18:33:05 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to:
18:33:29 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: DIG Meeting 18 August
18:33:43 [stunes]
how'd you do the blank... a space?
18:34:01 [sandro]
No, the "blank" was actually an IRC color-change code. :-)
18:34:08 [stunes]
interesting
18:40:18 [DanC]
we should look at which stuff even though...?
18:40:38 [sandro]
google, even though it's not semantic web.
18:40:44 [sandro]
aka not w3c standards.
18:41:14 [DanC]
which google stuff?
18:41:20 [sandro]
he didn't say
18:41:24 [DanC]
oh
18:41:44 [lkagal]
google visualization
18:41:45 [sandro]
then he switched to talking about David Huyn's Freebase stuff.
18:42:18 [timbl_]
http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/
18:43:16 [timbl_]
http://mqlx.com/~david/parallax/
18:44:28 [timbl_]
... and click on "president"
18:45:28 [timbl_]
David Huynh, Research Scientist, Metaweb Technologies, Inc.
18:48:32 [timbl]
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18:48:42 [stunes]
that would be me
18:49:48 [DanC]
(the DAWG considered an abstract model for SPARQL queries but postponed it. Hmm... but then I think the editors added something like that after all.)
18:50:14 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#xmlAbstractSyntax
18:51:22 [DanC]
(openlayers... related to openstreetmap?)
18:54:28 [DanC]
http://dabbledb.com/
18:56:05 [sandro]
http://www.web3event.com
19:03:07 [DanC]
("has anybody hacked freebase into RDF"? is not too far from Hixie's point that RDF isn't relevant to life as we know it and hence shouldn't be considered in the design of HTML 5)
19:04:39 [timbl_]
http://tufu.eecs.umich.edu/
19:06:19 [DanC]
(what motivates java experts to bother with yahoo answers?)
19:08:45 [DanC]
q+ to ask about pasting error messages into google... is there a clear way to improve error messages?
19:09:28 [sandro]
Making all messages include a URL might be a good starting point!
19:09:54 [DanC]
well, I dunno... that suggests the guy writing the code can host the best discussion of the problem
19:10:05 [DanC]
I wonder if large random numbers might work as well
19:10:17 [sandro]
yeah, or at least pick a good host, yes it does.
19:10:33 [sandro]
Yeah, random strings are certainly useful. I love error messages with them.
19:12:12 [DanC]
meanwhile, the large random number might as well take the form of a string of possibly-useful words...
19:12:28 [DanC]
... though that argues *against* localization of error messages...
19:12:38 [DanC]
... or does it? maybe tech support discussions are localized
19:14:57 [sandro]
I'll volunteer to accept one and report on whether I use it.
19:15:06 [DanC]
one which? digital photo frame?
19:15:11 [sandro]
yeah
19:17:48 [sandro]
am I the only one who is creeped out by the idea of photo frames displaying different stuff when different people are in the room? A bit like Harry Potter, but, .... yeah.
19:18:16 [DanC]
that creeps me out a lot less than political web sites that vary the message according to visitor
19:18:31 [sandro]
I haven't seen those, but yeah.
19:19:09 [DanC]
not sure I've seen them either
19:19:29 [DanC]
but just the idea of it, combined with the clear motivation to do it, creeps me out
19:19:37 [stunes]
scary thought, yes
19:20:22 [stunes]
what would be creepier than a changing photo, is something like xeyes that would follow you around the room
19:23:31 [DanC]
(it's clear from your cv that you're a keeper, Mark)
19:25:07 [lkagal]
ack DanC
19:30:34 [DanC]
"Get Satisfaction - People-Powered Customer Service" -- http://getsatisfaction.com/
19:50:21 [lkagal]
http://mr-burns.w3.org/cgi-bin/server_cgi.py?logFile=http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/ARL/log.n3&rulesFile=http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/ARL/udhr-policy.n3
19:52:21 [sandro]
ericP, not "too".
19:52:28 [sandro]
s/ericP/er/
20:15:09 [timbl_]
ADJOURNED
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20:48:23 [oshani]
Hi timbl_
21:18:25 [timbl_]
Hi Oshani
21:18:29 [timbl_]
How is it going?
21:18:43 [oshani]
good good
21:18:49 [oshani]
I wanted to show you http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/Papers/CSW/paper.pdf
21:18:57 [timbl_]
Any interesting new code?
21:19:00 [timbl_]
Ok, paper will do
21:19:10 [oshani]
that's the short paper (or rather the poster abstract) for the CSAIL Student Workshop I told you about
21:19:43 [oshani]
new code: well, I am trying out the Flickr api and I have some code to embed CC license stuff into EXIF
21:19:44 [DanC]
CSAIL Students... when do classes start this fall?
21:20:02 [oshani]
DanC, semester starts on Sep 2nd
21:20:14 [DanC]
ah
21:20:18 [DanC]
timbl, is DIG recruiting?
21:20:59 [timbl_]
embedding CC into exif .. is there a standard way to do that or did you hav top make it up?
21:21:17 [oshani]
I am making it up actually
21:21:24 [timbl_]
recruiting what, danc?
21:21:31 [DanC]
recruiting students
21:21:40 [oshani]
(I mean you can overwrite any thing on to EXIF data)
21:21:44 [timbl_]
Hmmm ... making it up is all very well for a demo and reseacrh but of course not for deployment
21:22:11 [timbl_]
There is XMP from Adobe which encodes RDF (in an ancient fashion) into anything.
21:22:42 [oshani]
http://www.adobe.com/products/xmp/ ?
21:23:19 [lkagal]
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21:24:03 [DanC]
the CC folks seem to have a design for putting CC license stuff in images: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Liblicense
21:24:31 [DanC]
liblicense seems to cite XMP for images
21:45:46 [timbl_]
Oshani,
21:46:03 [oshani]
I am here
21:46:12 [oshani]
timbl_
21:46:16 [timbl_]
basically a nice paper. Some typos/grammar corrections.
21:46:26 [timbl_]
What is the timing on it ... when do you need to hand it in
21:46:27 [timbl_]
?
21:46:31 [oshani]
okay
21:46:51 [oshani]
well, the official deadline is Aug 20th - but heard that they'll probably extend it
21:47:23 [oshani]
I will proof read it again and (hopefully) correct the mistakes :)
21:47:32 [timbl_]
I think it also needs a picture to sho wwhat the panes system is, with outline mode quite folded out, and with each overlapping pane outlined in red or something.
21:48:03 [timbl_]
People will say, 'multiple views, so what?"
21:48:13 [oshani]
you mean have all the panes in one figure?
21:48:18 [timbl_]
A pane is a view within an outline system
21:48:26 [oshani]
yes
21:48:48 [timbl_]
=The examples you give, quiet apropriately, show only one thing, with a few panes.
21:49:04 [timbl_]
tio explin what a pain is, one needs an outline view expanded out.
21:49:30 [oshani]
okay
21:49:38 [timbl_]
Data on a person (we just showed Mark Ackerman) and opened out the complaint and the organization, etc
21:49:47 [timbl_]
I can try to email you the typos
21:50:20 [oshani]
thanks timbl_ !
21:50:38 [oshani]
the latex source is also committed in the svn
21:59:16 [timbl_]
There's an idea.
22:00:31 [timbl_]
But I was conventional -- scribbled on it in red ink, scanned to PDF and emailed.
22:01:34 [oshani]
:) thanks!
22:04:41 [oshani]
timbl_, re: the mising picture, do you mean we include a picture like the one given in the Tabulator Redux paper - http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/14773/1/tabulatorWritingTechRep.pdf
22:05:37 [timbl_]
Is "Muhammed Al Ghamidi" a real person
22:05:40 [timbl_]
?
22:05:55 [oshani]
I think it's fictional
22:06:50 [timbl_]
Good
22:07:17 [oshani]
so, basically we should include a picture which shows the outline mode, and all the panes expanded out of it?
22:10:41 [timbl_]
well, something like http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/08/panes.png
22:11:02 [timbl_]
(not on the web yet but in svn)
22:11:45 [timbl_]
but with red lines
22:11:49 [timbl_]
arond the panes
22:14:17 [oshani]
okay, so the should the figure have all the panes (including the one's I created for the justification UI) or just this collapsible panes?
22:27:30 [timbl_]
just to show what paes are
22:29:14 [timbl_]
well, something like http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/08/panes1.png
22:29:25 [timbl_]
is committed... with red liens to show what a pane is
22:29:27 [timbl_]
that simple
22:29:46 [timbl_]
The only problem here is that this example (bother) doens't show th pane options at a lower level.
22:32:05 [timbl_]
By te way, do you think that it would be less confuding to users if teh panes became radio-button alternatives?
22:32:12 [timbl_]
confusing
22:32:26 [oshani]
timbl_, I think you haven't committed the png file (I don't have Omnigraffle to open the graffle file)
22:33:06 [oshani]
well, I think the icons are not so confusing
22:33:43 [timbl_]
scuse me, committed.
22:33:45 [timbl_]
now
22:35:07 [oshani]
ohh... I see what you mean now
22:35:29 [timbl_]
I thought only an image would do
22:35:34 [oshani]
I thought you wanted to expand all the panes (as in different views) in the same figure
22:35:50 [timbl_]
No, just wanted to explain how a pane wouks in outline mode
22:36:00 [oshani]
okay gotcha!
22:36:01 [timbl_]
works
22:36:49 [timbl_]
Maybe by opening up "Military" it would exp[ose a choice of pane at a nested level.
22:37:20 [oshani]
do you want to go with this particular example?
22:37:44 [oshani]
seems a bit out of place with the rest of the scenario
22:37:57 [timbl_]
oh, sorry, do chose a better one!
22:38:02 [oshani]
I could change it if you want though
22:38:12 [timbl_]
You don't have omnigraffle
22:38:19 [timbl_]
Thought it came free on a mac
22:38:34 [timbl_]
you don't have a mac
22:38:46 [oshani]
nope it didn't come with mine - got a trial version, and it expired
22:38:51 [oshani]
now using gimp
22:41:13 [timbl_]
Ok, I'll leave you to it
22:41:21 [timbl_]
Did you ge the email wiht scanned notes?
22:41:23 [oshani]
thanks for the feedback Tim
22:41:31 [oshani]
yeah, I am making the changes now
22:41:47 [timbl_]
Ok, cool. ping me againwhn yo ahve another version
22:41:47 [oshani]
and will send a mail once the paper is updated
22:41:51 [oshani]
sure!
22:43:24 [timbl_]
In general, the paper I think needs to a bit more separate out for this CSAIL thing the interesting bits of the work -- the UI challenges, the data integration research, the work on policy, and the work on explaining inferences. (Each of those prob should have huge lists of references!)
22:44:17 [timbl_]
A specific reference articles referenecd by the other DIG papers could even be a good idea ... check with lalana about what is good style
22:44:38 [oshani]
okay Tim
22:46:02 [timbl_]
KUTGW
22:46:06 [oshani]
bye!
22:46:09 [oshani]
thanks again
22:46:28 [timbl_]
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