IRC log of dig on 2008-11-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:29:09 [Ilaria_]

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01:06:56 [oshani]

timbl, we were wondering what http://www.w3.org/2005/01/flow is?

01:08:06 [kennyluck]

http://www.w3.org/2005/01/flow returns 404!

01:10:21 [timbl]

strange

01:11:08 [oshani]

and Tim http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/webid/socialFSM.n3 is invalid n3 as well

01:11:22 [timbl]

ah

01:11:25 [timbl]

should be wf/flow

01:11:26 [oshani]

you've forgotten to include ':'

01:11:58 [timbl]

I was just messing around in the .n3 file.. I don't drive the app from mit ..; mybe I will deleteit

01:12:08 [oshani]

ok

01:12:26 [timbl]

I started writing the workflow in N3

01:12:35 [timbl]

then thought it wouldprobbaly be easier in HTML

01:14:03 [timbl]

Where did you find these files from?

01:14:19 [oshani]

got an svn up and saw the new files added :)

01:14:19 [timbl]

kennyluck, what do you prefer?

01:14:25 [timbl]

:)

01:15:01 [timbl]

http://www.w3.org/2005/01/wf/flow

01:15:32 [kennyluck]

URI is fine. Or maybe Global ID?

01:16:19 [kennyluck]

I hate misleading terms such as FOAF URI, DOAP URI, too.

01:16:27 [kennyluck]

Just URI is fine.

01:17:40 [kennyluck]

RDF URI does not sound to include HTML URIs.

01:19:48 [kennyluck]

Web URI does not sound to include URIs such as wow://blizzard.com/kennyluck

01:21:35 [timbl]

Web ID.

01:21:52 [timbl]

Why not include wow://blizzard.com/kennyluck

01:21:54 [timbl]

?

01:22:11 [timbl]

People out there on the street do not know what a URI is

01:22:20 [timbl]

They do get openIDs.

01:22:50 [timbl]

You think "Web" means "HTML"?

01:23:32 [kennyluck]

Web seems to mean HTTP.

01:23:41 [timbl]

Yes.

01:23:49 [kennyluck]

that's why.

01:23:53 [timbl]

Well, people should use HTTP how their WebIDs.

01:24:14 [timbl]

Ok, wow://blizzard.com/kennyluck is not a good ID.

01:24:22 [kennyluck]

Hmm...I don't know.

01:24:32 [timbl]

You can't do things with it

01:28:32 [kennyluck]

But you can ask (SPARQL) machines that know how do things with it.

01:28:53 [timbl]

(maybe i like the term webid for this reason in fact -- id which are on the web)

01:29:56 [kennyluck]

We all agree on the centralized standard known as URI. But people don't agree on HTTP.

01:30:09 [timbl]

Yes.

01:30:31 [timbl]

However, the more people do share HTTP: the more interoperability we get.

01:31:24 [kennyluck]

Yes, but I would like to see One Internet in the future, linked using URI.

01:32:02 [kennyluck]

I am not so sure about RDF.

01:32:24 [kennyluck]

Based on my experience, RDFizing programming codes are messy.

01:32:38 [timbl]

programming codes?

01:32:42 [kennyluck]

But I am sure not URI is important

01:32:47 [timbl]

You mean like putting a FSM into N3?

01:32:47 [kennyluck]

Such as

01:32:56 [kennyluck]

FSM?

01:33:26 [timbl]

The finite state machine i coded up in chrome://tabulator/content/socialForm.html?nick=&name=&fileuri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.example.com%2Fusers%2Fgates%2Ffoaf.rdf

01:33:37 [timbl]

eh?

01:33:45 [timbl]

http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/webid/socialFSM.n3

01:33:47 [timbl]

I meant

01:34:26 [kennyluck]

This is simple. But I meant something as complicated as Websizing programming languages such as scheme.

01:34:49 [kennyluck]

(prefix `graph "http://www.algorithm.org/graph#")

01:35:03 [kennyluck]

(graph:shorttestpath G)

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01:35:49 [timbl]

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01:36:15 [timbl]

Ah, you have been looked the scheme monster in the eye and you will never be the same again :)

01:36:51 [timbl]

Ah .. you were not talking about the syntax, but encoding a list-based system as RDF.

01:37:06 [kennyluck]

Yes.

01:37:20 [kennyluck]

The syntax of lisp is nice for lots of reasons.

01:37:24 [timbl]

So long as lists are actually implemented as first class objects 9and not as RDF triples inside) you are OK, are you not?

01:37:30 [kennyluck]

Automated code generating, maybe.

01:37:51 [kennyluck]

Yes, I think.

01:39:42 [kennyluck]

based on URI.

01:40:04 [kennyluck]

RDF could still be nice metadata model.

01:40:29 [kennyluck]

graph:shorttestpath a Function; domain Graph.

01:40:47 [timbl]

I see.

01:41:05 [timbl]

So you add functions into the URI space and they call others in the URI space

01:41:18 [kennyluck]

Yes.

01:41:31 [timbl]

from http://www.mypython.com/ libs/latest/graph import graph

01:41:36 [kennyluck]

If I have time, I would like to hack a scheme compiler to do that.

01:41:44 [kennyluck]

Yeah, like that.

01:42:23 [kennyluck]

I want to talk to Ian about this. About puting python sources on the cwm builtin URIs.

01:42:37 [kennyluck]

Encourage people to make more builtins

01:42:48 [timbl]

Yes .. interesting idea.

01:42:56 [timbl]

Maybe digitally sign them for safety

01:43:27 [kennyluck]

Maybe, but I usually do risky things :)

01:44:43 [kennyluck]

I love the idea of linked data, but I am not so sure about privacy and trust.

01:46:40 [timbl]

Well, you sem to have both necessary parts in your brain - te love of doing risky powerful things, and the worry about trust -- all you have to do is to design a system which enables tehpower while preserving the trust ... that is a lot of what DIG work is about in a way :)

01:47:04 [timbl]

Privacy --> accountability, access control

01:47:48 [timbl]

Trust --> cwm rules which can operate on data as a function of its provenance and properties of the prvenance

01:53:41 [timbl]

:)

01:54:29 [timbl]

Well, if you want to play with schemelike rdf syntaxes or encoding programs in RDF etc do ... check out Adenine first, the internal language of Denis Quan's Haystack

01:56:02 [timbl]

or tried to

01:58:45 [kennyluck]

I do know that.

01:59:28 [kennyluck]

I mean Adenine. I am not sure it gives every function a URI.

02:00:07 [timbl]

I thought it compiled down to RDF as pcode

02:02:03 [kennyluck]

Hmm...Interesting...But one thing I found out about SIMILE is that they doesn't seem to understand linked data that well. You get 404 by dereferencing ontologies they made.

02:03:31 [timbl]

It's worth bugging them about that.

02:03:47 [timbl]

People who got involved early in RDF didn't always get the linked dat athing.

02:04:01 [timbl]

But do report it to them.

02:05:03 [kennyluck]

Well, It's nice if we have semantic web seminars in CSAIL. I've wished that. We have quite some groups working with RDF.

02:07:22 [kennyluck]

By the way, we went to the student workshop in September. About 1/4 of the students know RDF. Quite a good amount, I think.

02:07:59 [kennyluck]

Oshani asked how many people knew RDF. :)

02:11:29 [kennyluck]

I meant at the student workshop.

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10:35:57 [timbl]

Ooops .. "Thanks for helping us beta test Firefox 3.0.4" ummm did I ask to do that?

10:36:03 [timbl]

Yes I guess so

10:36:16 [timbl]

'Anyone who installed pre-release (alpha or beta) builds of Firefox 3 automatically became part of the Beta Testers program."

10:36:29 [timbl]

TAMISidebar not compatible.

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