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16:10:39 [presbrey]oops thx timbl
16:10:51 [presbrey]how does blacklist work then?
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16:29:43 [jambo]presbrey, theres a delete button now in the sidebar.. im testing weird cases now
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16:47:14 [timbl]jambo, is there cecked in code I can play with
16:47:45 [jambo]timbl, dig/2009/aclsidebar
16:48:04 [timbl]Blacklists, by the way, I suspect should be a sparate system, jsut a shared blacklist which it is easy to append to
16:48:24 [jambo]readme: http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2009/aclsidebar/README
16:51:18 [jambo]still doing a bit of code cleanup, its a bit repetitive in places
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17:02:30 [kennyluck]timbl?
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17:17:49 [charles2]Open question for anyone who feels like thinking about it: if i want to make a microblog writable by anyone to receive the replies and mentions for a user, how should i identify it?
17:18:12 [timbl]scibenick: masinter
17:18:21 [timbl]scribenick: masinter
17:18:33 [timbl]ooops wrong chan soryr
17:22:20 [mhausenblas]hehe, TAG's meeting ;)
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17:45:18 [presbrey]the linking from acl sidebar to tabulator is really cool
17:45:26 [presbrey]how does it show my name after I've clicked my foaf?
17:46:01 [presbrey]does acl sidebar hook tabulator kb or ?
17:51:32 [mhausenblas]presbrey, where is this available?
17:52:22 [jambo]mhausenblas, on dig svn in 2009/aclsidebar
17:52:23 [presbrey]I'm talking about jambo's ACLSidebar, available: https://svn.csail.mit.edu/dig/2009/aclsidebar/
17:52:38 [mhausenblas]cool, thanks you too :)
17:52:39 [jambo]presbrey, it does do that, but it doesnt have to
17:52:55 [jambo]it basically just asks tabulator if it has a better name than just the URI of something
17:53:19 [jambo]i think its something kennyluck wrote
17:53:25 [jambo]in the tabulator code
17:53:34 [mhausenblas]ouch. 403s with my public dig/dig credentials :(
17:53:53 [jambo]yeah, probably needs to be configured to allow that directory :(
17:55:18 [presbrey]its curious that the whole JS RDF library is copied in there rather than svn:external'd
17:55:31 [mhausenblas]well, maybe someone in the future is so nice to put it into a release? :)
17:55:40 [presbrey]did you have custom changes to it for aclsidebar jambo?
17:56:17 [jambo]no, it only calls it if the tabulator extension is installed
17:56:41 [jambo]otherwise it just makes its own no-frills version of the store
17:56:53 [jambo]and works inside that
17:57:28 [presbrey]right I was just curious... <https://svn.csail.mit.edu/dig/2009/aclsidebar/chrome/content/js/rdf> is that source JS same as in tabulator or changed somehow?
17:58:25 [jambo]it has a couple of logger lines commented out.. probably ought to fix that in the js space so that others don't have to do the same
17:58:55 [jambo]or alternatively i could have brought in the log javascript
17:59:02 [jambo]but its only 3 lines or so
17:59:06 [jambo]functionally, no changes
18:00:09 [presbrey]I am seeing a weird bug
18:00:20 [presbrey]I'm sure you're still working them out but
18:00:35 [jambo]yay ! what is it
18:00:54 [presbrey]look at https://presbrey.xvm.mit.edu/.meta.n3
18:01:13 [jambo]ok
18:01:24 [presbrey]there is a agentClass foafAgent; mode Read,Write.
18:01:39 [jambo]yes
18:01:58 [presbrey]it seems like its confusing the defaultForNew rule with the accessTo rule
18:02:26 [presbrey]my sidebar is showing 'Any Agent' [R] [] []
18:02:35 [jambo]what URI are you at
18:02:53 [jambo]just presbrey.mit.edu ?
18:02:55 [jambo]err xvm
18:03:12 [presbrey]oh no I see, if I go up one to the root... hmm...
18:03:52 [presbrey]so what is that about?
18:03:56 [jambo]are you having problems with subdirectories?
18:04:27 [jambo]or ?
18:04:54 [jambo]gah! i got it to draw acl twice :P
18:05:56 [jambo]presbrey, when i view https://presbrey.xvm.mit.edu/ , my sidebar shows Agent [R] [W] []
18:06:37 [jambo]what were you looking at when it showed [R] [] [] ?
18:07:08 [presbrey]click the .meta.n3
18:07:53 [jambo]ah, one sec. i think my headers are set incorrectly, its just asking me to download that
18:08:23 [presbrey]it opens with tabulator for me
18:08:27 [jambo]yeah, i got it now
18:08:54 [jambo]okay, so that's happening because the way i'm interpreting it is
18:09:14 [jambo]oh wait, hmm
18:09:35 [jambo]yes
18:09:36 [jambo]ok
18:10:25 [jambo]the first two rules in your file provide defaults, and the third is just an accessTo for the root directory. when you view .meta.n3, it only shows the defaults, because there is no rule that defines accessTo <>
18:10:58 [jambo]and the default says that agents can only read
18:11:33 [presbrey]yeah thx I think that makes sense
18:12:25 [presbrey]so I think this may be a tabulator bug but... http://web.mit.edu/presbrey/Public/acl_tab_1.png
18:12:30 [jambo]the way im interpreting it is that a rule that defines accessTo </> has no effect on actual files in the folder, only rules that are defaultForNew </>
18:12:57 [presbrey]check out the serialized N3 for that .meta.n3
18:13:21 [jambo]yikes
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18:13:28 [presbrey]<> s:seeAlso <>. ?
18:13:37 [jambo]yeah :(
18:13:58 [jambo]presbrey, do you have the latest version of tabulator from svn?
18:14:04 [presbrey]and I assume that kind of thing will propagate up to acl sidebar
18:14:15 [presbrey]when it serializes for PUT... no let me check
18:14:25 [jambo]yes, if that is happening somehow, you're right it will
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18:16:13 [jambo]presbrey, i think it might have something to do with how i push stuff into the tabulator store.. i'm going to try disabling the sidebar and looking at it
18:17:50 [presbrey]yeah the <.> ~= <./> in those two sameAs'd look a little phishy
18:18:00 [jambo]nah, it still happens :(
18:19:13 [jambo]presbrey, theres an off chance that the seeAlso doesn't claim to originate from the source doc
18:19:20 [jambo]ie ReadOnly/.meta.n3
18:19:35 [jambo]if thats the case, i wont pull it back in when i PUT
18:19:58 [presbrey]I could check with kb.any when I get this svn tab installed
18:22:57 [presbrey]ooh I have a pushback button now
18:23:30 [presbrey]yes I still get bad serialization in svn tab
18:23:57 [presbrey]can I get to the tabulator kb JS object in firebug or JS console?
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18:25:02 [jambo]i just did that, its really messy though
18:25:41 [jambo]tabulator = Components.classes["@dig.csail.mit.edu/tabulator;1"].getService(Components.interfaces.nsISupports).wrappedJSObject;
18:25:46 [presbrey]Components.classes["@dig.csail.mit.edu/tabulator;1"].getService(Components.interfaces.nsISupports).wrappedJSObject ?
18:25:52 [jambo]ding
18:25:56 [presbrey]hahahaha yeah I stole that from ACLSidebar.js :P
18:26:03 [kennyluck]I recommend the extensions's developer's extension's JS console
18:26:20 [presbrey]oh is that the one that lets you switch between XUL context?
18:26:27 [kennyluck]Yes
18:26:39 [kennyluck]So you can just go to the chrome window and type kb
18:26:40 [jambo]yeah, that works nicely
18:27:05 [jambo]also, the js console doesnt play nicely with <>
18:29:06 [jambo]ouch, it does claim that the document is the source
18:29:32 [jambo]no wait
18:29:42 [jambo]i forgot that i disabled the sidebar, so that isnt it
18:29:57 [presbrey]seems to be tabulator bug, maybe timbl knows this bug already?
18:31:06 [jambo]yeah, im unsure, my test server wasn't serving my metadata files as N3, so i didnt notice this :P good catch
18:33:27 [jambo]i dont actually load files through the normal pipeline even if you have the extension enabled.. and this problem doesnt show up the way that i load stuff :( that greatly expands the amount of code that the bug could reside in
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18:35:21 [presbrey]yeah I dont think I can debug it any more
18:37:19 [presbrey]I finished most of the framework for mod_sparul yesterday... arbitrary selects work; when swobjects gets sparul support, we can replace serializing and put :)
18:39:05 [jambo]yaaayy
18:40:05 [presbrey]yeah i'm pretty psyched too. ericp is my sparul hero hehe
18:50:03 [timbl]Open question for anyone who feels like thinking about it: if i want to make a microblog writable by anyone to receive the replies and mentions for a user, how should i identify it? --- link from the personal's account <#myaccount> µb:dropBox <public/drop3.rdf>.
18:50:05 [timbl]maybe
19:10:26 [jambo]presbrey, i found the problem
19:10:55 [jambo]in ext/chrome/content/js/rdf/sources.js
19:11:06 [jambo]~line 449
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19:11:46 [jambo]tabulator pulls in Link rel=meta, which is used to identify where the metadata is
19:12:14 [jambo]it adds a seeAlso triple that points to the metadata
19:15:32 [presbrey]ohhh
19:15:55 [presbrey]maybe it should only do that if URI_file != URI_metadata
19:16:52 [jambo]yeah, but it feels a little odd to have a Link header pointing to yourself
19:19:32 [jambo]well, obviously that worked
19:22:34 [presbrey]why is the metadata for a URI sameAs'd to the URI its describing anyway?
19:22:48 [presbrey]ohh not sameAs, seeAlso. nevermind.
19:23:45 [jambo]yeah :)
19:58:56 [ruthd]if a property doesn't define a range, does that mean it can take a literal or any URI?
19:59:14 [kennyluck]yes, ruthd.
19:59:53 [ruthd]but if the range is #Resource, then it has to be a URI ?
20:00:23 [kennyluck]I personally don't know what a Resource it.
20:00:42 [kennyluck]I remember seeing somebody say Resource is just Thing
20:01:05 [presbrey]I think all Resources have URIs ruthd
20:01:10 [kennyluck]so It could be a literal
20:01:20 [ruthd]yeah... so google's data-vocabulary makes everything a subclass of Resource
20:01:24 [ruthd](most things)
20:01:36 [presbrey]pointer, ruthd ?
20:01:43 [ruthd]http://rdf.data-vocabulary.org/rdf.xml
20:02:04 [ruthd]I'm um, trying to get back up to speed on RDF
20:02:14 [presbrey]what is data-vocabulary.org?
20:02:14 [kennyluck]:)
20:02:31 [ruthd]it's the vocabulary Google defined for reviews ...
20:02:35 [kennyluck]oh, google announces that they will index RDFa
20:02:50 [kennyluck]But this is the thing it indexes now.
20:02:57 [ruthd]ye-e-es, i think
20:03:06 [kennyluck]This is kind of stupid, I know.
20:05:10 [ruthd]presbrey, maybe you know -- is there a listing somewhere of domain => recommended ontologies ?
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20:24:50 [ruthd]wb kennyluck
20:25:00 [kennyluck]wb?
20:25:18 [ruthd]you disappeared for like a second =)
20:25:39 [kennyluck]on, randomly touched the disconnect buttom
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20:32:41 [kennyluck]timbl, I just sent you an email with my mail address kennylu@mit.edu
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20:33:33 [ruthd]oh right, japan time
20:41:54 [timbl]ruthd, Resource is anything including literal
20:47:31 [ruthd]ah ok.
20:48:07 [ruthd]timbl, do YOU know if there's a list of domain => recommended ontologies?
20:48:34 [ruthd]also i have to read the RDF primer again to refresh all that
20:48:53 [ruthd]anything else to read about RDF vs RDFa vs microformats?
20:55:01 [ruthd]"<!-- aside:
20:55:01 [ruthd]are spatial things always spatially located?
20:55:01 [ruthd]Person includes imaginary people... discuss... -->
20:55:01 [ruthd]" =)
20:56:46 [ruthd]are all RDF entities supposed to be uri#tag (i.e. with a hash tag)? what is the meaning of uri (without hash tag)?
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21:01:25 [presbrey]ruthd, maybe http://www.w3.org/2008/07/MappingRules/#linked will help
21:02:54 [presbrey]rest of it might be good too if you are exposing existing google data sources
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21:23:55 [ruthd]thanks for the link, presbrey
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21:45:33 [jsoltren1]Are there slides available for this talk?
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22:01:13 [ruthd]what talk was jsoltren talking about?
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23:53:34 [ericP]presbrey, i won't get to update today. may be pretty wasted tomorrow (taking a red-eye and doped-up on pain killers)
23:53:39 [ericP]friday seems likely
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