IRC log of dig on 2010-09-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:02:14 [timbl]
Presbrey ¿¿rewriting IndexedFormula??? in what language?
00:07:20 [nunnun]
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00:07:38 [timbl]
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00:09:02 [presbrey]
I agree it should be copied on directory creation
00:10:51 [presbrey]
merging parent ACLs at request time is likely too much thinking about aliasing, symlinks, and performance
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12:17:54 [Simpson_2]
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12:18:00 [Simpson_2]
hi
12:20:01 [betehess]
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13:02:04 [ericP]
did anyone see a flock of timbls go by?
13:02:06 [melvster]
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13:02:59 [mhausenblas]
not even a tiny bit, ericP ;)
13:04:02 [ericP]
does your irc client show join and quit messages?
13:04:14 [mhausenblas]
yes, ericP
13:04:41 [mhausenblas]
seems he's left earlier
13:05:42 [ericP]
yeah, scanning back, i saw two joins and three quits in a row from timbl{,_}
13:05:54 [mhausenblas]
ack that
13:08:02 [ericP]
somewhat off topic for this channel, but have you peeked at the definitions in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/#alg /
13:08:05 [ericP]
?
13:08:28 [ericP]
i'd like to make those as clear and precise as possible
13:16:51 [kennyluck]
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13:19:05 [mhausenblas]
yup, had a look at it and they are quite clear (to me)
13:22:58 [ericP]
no better way to express http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/#direct-directT springs to mine?
13:23:59 [timbl]
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13:25:17 [mhausenblas]
ericP, not really ;)
13:25:17 [ericP]
hyea timbl, what's the best way for me to package up the sparql executable for mac, given that:
13:26:04 [ericP]
.. i can't (well, no one can) build static binaries in mac, so i need to include several boost libs on the system
13:26:34 [ericP]
.. i'd like to use a system which is easy/familiar for folks to install
13:26:35 [ericP]
.
13:26:37 [ericP]
?
13:30:01 [ericP]
mhausenblas, are you a mac user?
13:30:38 [ericP]
are fink and macports pretty commonly installed on macs?
13:33:15 [timbl]
Well, I don't know. If the system uses stuff which you get through mac ports then you aen't adding an extra requirement
13:33:44 [timbl]
Mac doesn't do static binaries?
13:33:47 [mhausenblas]
ericP, yes, Mac user
13:34:03 [timbl]
There are lots of applications which you just drag into your disk to instll them
13:34:09 [ericP]
yeah, i've fought for ages over this and the answer is always "no static binaries"
13:34:37 [ericP]
any idea how hard it is to write such an image (dmg file?)
13:34:39 [ericP]
?
13:35:45 [mhausenblas]
I've no idea how hard it is to do it but can ask around if anyone has done it if that helps
13:37:25 [mhausenblas]
not sure re fink/macports but does http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20853/macports-or-fink help?
13:38:54 [bblfish]
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13:39:25 [bblfish]
can I get tabulator to run on 4.0b4 ?
13:39:56 [ericP]
ahh, i do want to give binaries -- seems to imply Fink
13:40:26 [melvster]
<em:maxVersion>
13:40:28 [melvster]
3.*.*
13:40:30 [melvster]
</em:maxVersion>
13:40:35 [mhausenblas]
ah
13:40:36 [melvster]
you may need to hack that, in install.rdf
13:40:44 [melvster]
not sure
13:41:02 [timbl]
bblfish, if tabulator doesn't just cahnge the install.rdf file to say that it should -- unless there is a bug
13:41:04 [mhausenblas]
bblfish, if you need help, gimme a shout and I come over ;)
13:41:05 [bblfish]
ok. I think I had downloaded it a while ago
13:41:18 [mhausenblas]
(literally)
13:41:26 [bblfish]
yes :-)
13:41:49 [betehess]
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13:43:10 [bblfish]
where's the source repo?
13:43:25 [melvster]
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/Developer.html
13:43:34 [melvster]
everything you need is there
13:43:38 [bblfish]
ah ok
13:43:50 [bblfish]
No link on the tabulator.org page
13:43:52 [bblfish]
I think
13:44:44 [timbl]
True
13:54:50 [webr3]
timbl, re rewriting IndexedFormula, as mentioned yesterday I'm being paid to rewrite all of rdflib.js in haXe - more of a refactor to staticly type it all, clean up and roughly document the api (whilst keeping it tabulator compatible), unit test it all then compile it back to javascript to work on client and server side (unit tests will be in js too)
13:55:40 [Simpson_2]
hi all
13:56:22 [webr3]
when done I can give you guys back the haxe and the js versions - or I can also just give back patches for the bugs I find - development could then continue on in either haxe or js quite easily from there
13:56:28 [betehess]
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13:56:39 [timbl]
We have scala fans around here .. do you think the haXe could be converted to scala?
13:57:40 [webr3]
I know haxe compiles to c++, php, javascript, actionscript 3, neko and (something else) - I could ask about getting some scala support, somebody may be working on it atm
13:59:04 [bblfish]
I am a scala beginner only at present
14:00:48 [Simpson_2]
webr3, does it make sense to keep on doing my documentation ?
14:01:03 [webr3]
Simpson_2, certainly does :)
14:01:09 [betehess]
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14:01:20 [Simpson_2]
webr3, did you get my 2nd mail yesterday ?
14:01:24 [SimpsonTP]
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14:01:43 [webr3]
Simpson, not yet - will check mails in a moment :)
14:05:52 [betehess]
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14:08:59 [bblfish]
are you sure that the explanation here is correct?
14:09:00 [bblfish]
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/Developer.html
14:09:19 [bblfish]
should it not be ln -s or something?
14:09:20 [bblfish]
ls "~/tabulator" > "tabulator@csail.mit.edu"
14:09:50 [nunnun]
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14:09:52 [bblfish]
now I get
14:09:53 [bblfish]
$ cat tabulator\@csail.mit.edu
14:09:53 [bblfish]
chrome
14:09:53 [bblfish]
chrome.manifest
14:09:53 [bblfish]
components
14:09:53 [bblfish]
install.rdf
14:10:10 [bblfish]
which seems weird to me. I'd have thought at least the full path should be there
14:12:39 [bblfish]
I think that document should say in step 2
14:12:40 [bblfish]
echo ~/Programming/w3.org/tabulator > tabulator@csail.mit.edu
14:13:54 [timbl]
Scala is a strongly typed language which compiles to the java vm .. sounds as though haXe is also strongly typed (is it functional with closures?)
14:14:32 [timbl]
(will ffox do a ~ ?)
14:15:35 [mhausenblas]
bblfish, yes, I had the same issues, see http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2010-06-29.html#T08-09-52
14:16:07 [timbl]
bblfish, ls -d
14:16:17 [bblfish]
ah let me see
14:16:44 [timbl]
try that
14:16:46 [timbl]
14:16:57 [bblfish]
well there is no difference between that and echo
14:17:05 [bblfish]
but yes, I had that
14:17:06 [timbl]
realy?
14:17:08 [webr3]
timbl, yep haxe is strongly typed, with closures, lambdas, enums, typedef's (which are awesome) full typing of Array<String> etc and quite a few other features :) compiles to multiple targets.. however atm the team I'm in has forked the std library for it and is starting to treat it more like a js compiler
14:17:15 [bblfish]
well perhaps -d is better
14:17:17 [oshani]
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14:17:34 [bblfish]
in any case FF4b4 installs it
14:17:56 [timbl]
Ah I see the ~ expands on the command line
14:18:02 [timbl]
so it doesn't echo literally
14:18:06 [timbl]
Oh that will work
14:18:37 [bblfish]
perhaps -d is better, as perhaps not all shells expand the same way
14:19:47 [webr3]
timbl, here's the rdf.Literal rewritten in haxe: http://pastie.org/1133776 and here's rdf.Formula http://pastie.org/1133777
14:19:57 [timbl]
hmm .. ooop s i had fixed thatbug but not checked it in
14:22:40 [bblfish]
ok, so tabulator works in 3.6.8 but not in 4.b4
14:22:44 [bblfish]
no problem
14:23:04 [mhausenblas]
that's good to know bblfish, tx
14:24:16 [bblfish]
how do I try out the wiki? http://tabulator.org/wiki/
14:24:39 [bblfish]
seems to be loading slowly
14:28:01 [melvster]
loads fast for me
14:28:06 [melvster]
do you see directory entries?
14:28:26 [bblfish]
yes
14:28:38 [bblfish]
should it perhaps be an https url?
14:28:49 [melvster]
at the bottom there should be a login with webid link?
14:29:24 [bblfish]
ah yes. needed a https url
14:29:30 [bblfish]
yes I am logged in
14:29:38 [bblfish]
as bblfish.net/#hjs
14:30:22 [bblfish]
now - we still need to solve the WebID logout problem.
14:30:36 [bblfish]
can't logout without restrting the firefox browser
14:31:18 [bblfish]
(couchsurfing)
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14:54:48 [bblfish]
so I suppose I should be given access to that file so I can see the wiki at work
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15:10:40 [timbl]
bblfish, do you have tabulator installed then?
15:10:51 [bblfish]
yes
15:10:58 [mcherian]
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15:10:59 [timbl]
Try http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2010/issues/track#TabTracker
15:11:22 [timbl]
You need to tell tabualtor who you are
15:11:23 [bblfish]
ok see it
15:11:42 [timbl]
go to youself
15:11:55 [timbl]
and open the social pane
15:12:16 [timbl]
It should hand-hold you to giving your webid
15:12:28 [timbl]
This isn't secure, just helps tabulator work from your PoV
15:12:34 [bblfish]
how do I to to myself
15:12:35 [bblfish]
?
15:13:29 [timbl]
OOOpps the social pane is broken
15:13:36 [bblfish]
ah
15:14:48 [timbl]
That's strange
15:15:10 [timbl]
There is a littel converaion in the social pane aboyt wthet fact that you need a webid
15:15:23 [RalphS]
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15:15:31 [timbl]
but there is a bug in it ... /me looks
15:23:48 [presbrey]
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15:37:42 [timbl]
So bblfish (which country are you in now?)
15:37:50 [bblfish]
Ireland
15:37:52 [bblfish]
in Galway
15:37:53 [mcherian]
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15:37:59 [bblfish]
at DERI
15:38:08 [timbl]
Must be nice there this time of year
15:38:22 [bblfish]
I need to go out and look :-/
15:38:30 [timbl]
you then to do hg pull; hg update
15:38:31 [bblfish]
but yes, I think it's been quite sunny
15:38:41 [bblfish]
ok let me try
15:38:57 [mhausenblas]
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15:39:03 [mari-brb]
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15:39:34 [timbl]
Then if you look at http://bblfish.net/people/henry/card#me and select the pane with teh FOAF icon on it
15:39:52 [timbl]
under your picture you see a box which says "this is you"
15:40:19 [timbl]
you can either check that box, or you can answer the dialog "Tip: Do you have web ID?"
15:40:19 [bblfish]
just added a comment on bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=396441#c18
15:40:41 [bblfish]
those are the ssl bugs in firefox all put together
15:41:12 [melvster]
hg pull --update (works too)
15:42:00 [bblfish]
ok, waiting for ff to restart
15:42:59 [oshani]
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15:43:16 [bblfish]
ok that works
15:43:58 [timbl]
Fo ffox knows who you are
15:44:02 [timbl]
So
15:44:17 [bblfish]
ok
15:45:37 [bblfish]
do I now go to http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2010/issues/track#TabTracker ?
15:45:44 [timbl]
for example.
15:46:04 [timbl]
and look at a bug
15:46:08 [timbl]
and add a message to teh bug
15:47:49 [bblfish]
ah ok
15:48:35 [timbl]
and if you laod http://tabulator.org/wiki/tabulator/tracker/issue too for example you look at http://tabulator.org/wiki/tabulator/tracker/issue#issue88
15:49:00 [timbl]
and you press "New Message" it should add a new message and automatically record it as being from you
15:49:49 [timbl]
So that works by storeing data in this data wiki
15:49:54 [bblfish]
should I press the + at the bottom ?
15:50:20 [timbl]
(wrong pane?)
15:50:30 [bblfish]
I am looking at http://tabulator.org/wiki/tabulator/tracker/user#user8
15:50:30 [timbl]
a blue plus?
15:50:38 [bblfish]
ah yes
15:50:40 [timbl]
That's not very interesting
15:50:49 [bblfish]
message ->
15:50:56 [bblfish]
We keep talking about putting a little compass next to map data, something next to calendar data, a little inferenceweb widget, something to identify bnodes.
15:50:58 [timbl]
Find an issue
15:51:13 [bblfish]
oh 88
15:51:23 [timbl]
The user doesn't havee a lot of user infor ... well, may you will see some , I don't
15:51:59 [bblfish]
back to http://tabulator.org/wiki/tabulator/tracker/issue#issue88
15:52:15 [bblfish]
there I see a message row
15:52:45 [bblfish]
but I don't see "new message"
15:52:51 [mhausenblas]
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15:54:11 [bblfish]
timbl you on skype?
15:54:15 [bblfish]
then I can show you what I see
15:54:26 [bblfish]
save having to pop the thing up on flickr
15:56:43 [bblfish]
this is what I see http://www.flickr.com/photos/bblfish/4951732322/lightbox/
15:56:55 [bblfish]
( skype has screen sharing )
15:58:05 [bblfish]
so I don't see that "new message" box
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16:27:45 [timbl]
Ooops ah you don't have the refactor branch
16:27:56 [timbl]
bblfish you need
16:27:58 [bblfish]
ah
16:28:01 [timbl]
hg update refactor
16:28:12 [timbl]
quit and restartffox
16:28:40 [bblfish]
is that inside the tabulator dir that I should do that?
16:28:41 [timbl]
Your identity should stick
16:30:31 [timbl]
yes you have to be inside the tbulator dir somewhere
16:30:35 [timbl]
in the tree.
16:34:15 [bblfish]
ah yes it looks better now
16:34:19 [bblfish]
it's the color of ireland
16:34:58 [bblfish]
cool got it
16:35:28 [bblfish]
(did that bug report make sense. I kind of wonder if one should not open a new one on FFox, because that old one is so long)
16:36:17 [bblfish]
very nice :-)
16:36:42 [bblfish]
hehe: a data driven web site
16:42:02 [bblfish]
so is that ready so we can use it to do bug management for WebID ?
16:44:50 [bblfish]
What I can try to do it put a few of the bugs for WebID in the format required for this, if it's not a silly idea
16:55:06 [presbrey]
yeah, put it in the tabulator data wiki!
16:55:43 [bblfish]
it gest backed up?
16:55:52 [bblfish]
I suppose it does, if it is a wiki
16:56:19 [presbrey]
exactly. it goes into version control
16:57:41 [bblfish]
ok I'll try that then…. If it works seems like a good idea for webid. I'd be a bit against exposing the web2.0 crowd to tabulator too early. They are a timid lot. but devs on webid, is another thing :-)
16:57:56 [presbrey]
you can just copy track.n3 and change wf:stateStore
16:58:23 [presbrey]
its in a handy 'change these uris if you copy this file' section
16:58:57 [bblfish]
ok, … just reporting an SSL bug for firefox right now
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17:28:06 [timbl]
s/a data driven web site/a read-write web of data driven web site/ :-)
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