IRC log of dig on 2012-01-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:09 [presbrey]
our hooks could still adapt
00:03:44 [bblfish]
if you know how that's great
00:03:44 [presbrey]
when 3, make sure 1 ran, then also 2, then finally do 3
00:04:00 [bblfish]
well perhaps it's worth making a function and trying it out
00:04:18 [bblfish]
what I have there seems to work
00:04:20 [presbrey]
fill in the missed events at each step
00:04:50 [presbrey]
firefox still has other probs just as dataskin !ext
00:05:07 [presbrey]
how do I enable proxy in tabulator skin?
00:05:23 [bblfish]
I don't know :-)
00:05:34 [bblfish]
I just tried to get something to work.
00:05:49 [amy]
amy has left #dig
00:05:53 [bblfish]
I have the Safari/Chrome working
00:05:57 [presbrey]
there is precedence for globals on proxy settings eg. http_proxy env
00:07:11 [bblfish]
ok, so that's something I did not know of. Perhaps adapt the code to use http+rpxy
00:07:46 [presbrey]
eg. //data.fm/proxy has tabulator dataskin and should hint to tabulator always use this itself, local-origin data.fm/proxy
00:08:08 [bblfish]
your knowledge is deeper than mine very likely.
00:08:34 [bblfish]
I'd love it if you find the better solution.
00:08:36 [bblfish]
:-)
00:08:52 [bblfish]
because I just want to get the social web application going
00:09:17 [presbrey]
cool. I'm going to look at firefox brokenness next, then proxy. whats left blocking you?
00:09:38 [bblfish]
I think I'd like to have an option so all goes through a proxy
00:10:00 [bblfish]
my aim is to have this work on a freedombox
00:10:02 [presbrey]
yep just keep the base_uri fixed
00:10:04 [bblfish]
the FB will be p2p
00:10:15 [bblfish]
browsers are messed up
00:10:25 [bblfish]
so we have to work with what we have
00:11:10 [bblfish]
RDF is still very helpful even when going through a proxy, because it gives a global datastructure
00:11:12 [bblfish]
e
00:11:27 [presbrey]
thats ok proxies can helpful to empower our poor, broken, and/or old
00:11:51 [bblfish]
If you do that I can write a proxy tomorrow for read-write-web in scala
00:12:14 [bblfish]
so it does not all have to go through your proxy
00:12:27 [bblfish]
It would be nice if one did not have to parse the RDF in the proxy
00:12:34 [presbrey]
linked data is always nice you can conneg down to csv for your poor wget|cut queries
00:12:46 [presbrey]
talk about interoperability
00:12:47 [bblfish]
ah no
00:12:50 [bblfish]
RDF all the way
00:12:54 [bblfish]
no CSB
00:12:59 [bblfish]
csv
00:13:02 [presbrey]
haha of course the source is csv
00:13:21 [presbrey]
some embedded linux don't even know what java is henry ;)
00:13:42 [bblfish]
?
00:13:54 [presbrey]
*of course the source is RDF*
00:14:06 [bblfish]
the javascript should be dealing with rdf
00:14:15 [presbrey]
yes
00:14:24 [bblfish]
then I can build a structure that will work even when CORS is fixed
00:14:37 [presbrey]
already, our proxy currently connegs to text/turtle by default
00:14:47 [presbrey]
as long as tabulator doesn't q= itself into xml
00:15:23 [bblfish]
yes, but i like the javascript in the browser using rdf
00:15:24 [presbrey]
should even convert rdfa if you dont want to wait for the rdflib.js tests to work!
00:16:13 [bblfish]
yes. could do that as an intermediate step
00:16:13 [presbrey]
you should just use kb in your app
00:16:15 [bblfish]
just saying I can build another proxy and put it up on foafssl.org
00:16:26 [presbrey]
and let rdflib/tabulator handle the cors/proxy situation
00:16:33 [bblfish]
yes
00:16:57 [presbrey]
thats great, we can cycle through to the fastest/local proxy on our client
00:17:14 [bblfish]
in the end your own freedom box is your only proxy
00:17:20 [presbrey]
but firefox has to work too :|
00:17:29 [bblfish]
which you connect to with WebID
00:17:37 [bblfish]
so there is no danger of overloading a server
00:17:43 [presbrey]
yes unless it gets too busy, maybe another on your LAN has some free time
00:18:19 [bblfish]
yes. initially we have some proxy services. But in the end your proxy server should have a key it can use to pretend to be you
00:18:39 [bblfish]
so it can get to access controlled statements
00:18:54 [bblfish]
-> that's why you can't have a global proxy
00:19:13 [bblfish]
the proxy will just be a way to get around browser limitations
00:19:38 [presbrey]
you can issue a cert to your proxy to let it act as part of you
00:19:43 [bblfish]
your FB/proxy is just an extension of your browser
00:19:48 [bblfish]
exactly
00:19:51 [presbrey]
just add it to your foaf/card/webid
00:19:56 [bblfish]
yes
00:20:06 [bblfish]
but that means I can't use your proxy (long term)
00:20:14 [presbrey]
when you are done, drop the triple :)
00:20:17 [bblfish]
every body just uses their FB
00:20:40 [bblfish]
so that is where we want to end up at
00:20:46 [presbrey]
sure you can do your own authentication on your freedombox
00:20:51 [bblfish]
long term: working browsers with no proxy
00:20:57 [presbrey]
like allow 192.168/16 is pretty common
00:21:06 [bblfish]
medium term: person FB with personal proxy
00:21:12 [bblfish]
short term: any proxy will do
00:21:32 [bblfish]
ah yes, you can have local proxy on machine too
00:22:00 [bblfish]
but that's more work for the user
00:22:28 [bblfish]
in any case to start off with we should get it to work with any proxy
00:22:36 [bblfish]
"proxy service"
00:22:41 [bblfish]
should be the right name
00:22:50 [bblfish]
because these proxies are not real http proxies
00:23:30 [presbrey]
I'd refer to it as an LD proxy
00:23:49 [bblfish]
so if I can set #rdf.proxysvc = "http://data.fm/srv/cors?{url}
00:23:52 [bblfish]
that would be good
00:23:55 [melvster]
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00:24:31 [bblfish]
I mean $rdf.proxysvc = "http://data.fm/srv/cors?{url}
00:25:11 [bblfish]
the pitty about LD proxy is that it has to parse the rdf before spitting it out again: that uses memory
00:25:33 [bblfish]
a pure representation based proxy can be 1000 more efficient
00:25:42 [bblfish]
using new IO
00:25:53 [bblfish]
also known as the select() call in C
00:26:42 [bblfish]
the problem is that with a proxy service like that your relative URLs don't get rewritten
00:26:55 [bblfish]
and so you end up creating new URLs
00:27:09 [presbrey]
there are tradeoffs with any of this
00:27:36 [bblfish]
yes a pure HTTP proxy would be nice, but it won't work for people who are behind a proxy I think
00:27:46 [bblfish]
(unless one can chain proxies?)
00:27:54 [presbrey]
melvster started without rdflib.js
00:28:07 [presbrey]
just using JSON
00:28:43 [presbrey]
to merge with FB graph JSON
00:28:44 [bblfish]
I don't want to use JSON
00:28:49 [bblfish]
I think it's mixing up syntax and semantics
00:28:56 [bblfish]
I want to use RDF
00:29:01 [presbrey]
if you don't want to do connect, yes you can just retransmit packets
00:29:21 [bblfish]
question: can one chain pure HTTP proxies
00:29:35 [presbrey]
if you work with lots of types of clients, conneg routing is worth the cost I think
00:30:17 [presbrey]
also you get extra assurances and data conditioning
00:30:50 [presbrey]
in reality when LD takes over all your interfaces, you will just run your own localhost proxy
00:31:05 [bblfish]
can be
00:31:05 [presbrey]
that way every app doesn't need your foaf in its own memory
00:31:19 [presbrey]
they can all just query their shared LD memory / proxy
00:32:59 [presbrey]
...
00:33:02 [bblfish]
yes, but still you are republishing rdf you may not want to republish
00:33:15 [presbrey]
I think the Via: is used to inidicate chaining?
00:33:25 [bblfish]
was just looking at that
00:33:33 [bblfish]
is this the thing? http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2068.txt
00:33:59 [presbrey]
access to (re)published RDF is always assumed subject to WebID / ACL
00:34:59 [bblfish]
well anyway. see what you can do. I was just trying to see if one could make this very efficinet
00:35:45 [presbrey]
what were the major slowdowns when you were testing?
00:37:31 [presbrey]
do you need a way to specify http-proxy to eg. data.fm/proxy?
00:37:43 [bblfish]
I don't have any yet. But I know that if someone sends a 1 MB foaf profile, parsing that in memory is going to take a lot of space
00:38:07 [presbrey]
yes, please be nice to our proxy :)
00:38:10 [bblfish]
with a simple HTTP proxy you could send any size of file I would not need more than 1k to pass it along
00:38:16 [presbrey]
it can probably be easily DoSd
00:38:36 [bblfish]
I am nice. The problem is people pointing to files that are 1MB large
00:38:44 [bblfish]
or 10MB large
00:38:48 [bblfish]
or 1000MB large
00:39:02 [bblfish]
we can't tell in advance
00:39:17 [bblfish]
( Kinglsey had 1MB files he sent me some time ago)
00:39:58 [presbrey]
thats ok the proxy might still do it for friends or localhost
00:40:19 [bblfish]
then there are denial of service attacks on hashmaps
00:40:53 [bblfish]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Cq3CLI6H8
00:41:14 [bblfish]
"28c3: Effective Denial of Service attacks against web application platforms"
00:41:16 [bblfish]
those are things you need to take into consideration
00:41:43 [bblfish]
people could design xml structures that use weakness in your hashmaps
00:42:07 [presbrey]
sure Ruby had a bad one a bit ago
00:42:55 [bblfish]
Anyway, we can get going with something that's vulnerable to start off with just to get going
00:43:05 [bblfish]
but keep those in the back of your mind
00:44:09 [presbrey]
yes there's basically unlimited fun ahead of us
00:44:16 [bblfish]
:-)
00:44:51 [bblfish]
anyway I am sure you can improve my code. Just let me know where you are heading so I know what I can work on next
00:45:09 [bblfish]
send me a mail at henry.story@bblfish.net
00:45:14 [bblfish]
time for me to go to sleep
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10:27:18 [github]
[rdflib.js] timbl pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/G1qcUw
10:27:18 [github]
[rdflib.js/master] small fixes - Tim Berners-Lee
10:27:18 [github]
[rdflib.js/master] sigh - Tim Berners-Lee
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18:02:09 [presbrey]
hey does anyone have multiple SANs in their WebID?
18:04:21 [presbrey]
please send me [extensions] section: https://data.fm/test/x509
18:25:29 [bblfish]
you should ask on #webid list
18:25:34 [bblfish]
presbrey
18:25:45 [bblfish]
there's bound to be someone there
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18:51:19 [melvster1]
presbrey: i think kingsley has multiple sans
18:52:37 [bblfish]
yes
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18:57:57 [github]
[rdflib.js] timbl pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v_6zcw
18:57:57 [github]
[rdflib.js/master] moving to ttl manifest - Tim Berners-Lee
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19:31:14 [github]
[data.fm] presbrey pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/Gzg2xA
19:31:14 [github]
[data.fm/master] header: optimize sess deps - Joe Presbrey
19:31:14 [github]
[data.fm/master] WebID: add SSL_CLIENT_CERT implementation - Joe Presbrey
19:31:14 [github]
[data.fm/master] s/debug: add SSL_ - Joe Presbrey
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19:33:01 [presbrey]
* now WebID works on the new data.fm
19:33:36 [presbrey]
we'll have to update that after kingsley brings his multi-san webid around
19:37:18 [presbrey]
tested it with my multi-key just fine
19:43:21 [presbrey]
melvster1, yours work?
19:55:48 [melvster1]
let me check
19:56:01 [melvster1]
yes it works
19:56:07 [melvster1]
, presbrey :)
19:58:10 [melvster1]
presbrey ... im not sure if timbl's webid works on data.fm
19:58:24 [melvster1]
failed last time we checked
20:10:45 [presbrey]
bblfish, http://bblfish.com/ looks down from here
20:11:04 [bblfish]
it's bblfish.net
20:12:52 [presbrey]
oops hehe
20:12:59 [bblfish]
timbl had a lot of spaces in his xsd:hexBinary
20:13:02 [presbrey]
ok try https://data.fm/test/webid
20:13:20 [bblfish]
so I brought that up on the xml-schema mailing list http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-schema-comments/2012JanMar/0011.html
20:13:35 [bblfish]
some seem to think xml schema could be made more flexible
20:13:49 [bblfish]
others say that as things stand it is not
20:15:52 [bblfish]
for example there was this in support http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-schema-comments/2012JanMar/0018.html
20:16:25 [bblfish]
an Henry Thompson also was in support for a more flexible xml schema
20:17:50 [presbrey]
SPARQL on timbl's card returns 0 bindings
20:18:01 [presbrey]
but we can see 24 triples on the graph
20:18:03 [presbrey]
https://data.fm/test/webid?uri=http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card%23i
20:19:39 [bblfish]
<#i> cert:key [ a cert:RSAPublicKey;
20:19:40 [bblfish]
cert:modulus """d7 a0 e9 1e ed dd cc 90 5d 5e cc d1 e4 12 ab 0c
20:19:40 [bblfish]
5b db e1 18 fa 99 b7 13 2d 91 54 52 f0 b0 9a f5 ...
20:19:51 [bblfish]
do you remove the white space?
20:20:23 [bblfish]
If timbl thinks that should be legal then it would be good if he added a small note in support of my request to the xml schema crowd
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20:20:48 [github]
[data.fm] presbrey pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/NBZwXQ
20:20:48 [github]
[data.fm/master] webid: separate query function - Joe Presbrey
20:20:48 [github]
[data.fm/master] root: add test - Joe Presbrey
20:20:48 [github]
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20:21:38 [bblfish]
I'll write a summary to the webid mailing list and semweb mailing list
20:25:22 [presbrey]
timbl would work if he didn't have syntax errors
20:25:25 [presbrey]
rapper -q -c -i turtle -o turtle 'http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card'
20:25:25 [presbrey]
rapper: Error - URI http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card:47 - syntax error
20:25:25 [presbrey]
rapper: Failed to parse URI http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card turtle content
20:26:09 [presbrey]
47: is rdfs:seeAlso of card:i; # Go fetch it
20:26:14 [bblfish]
that's probably because it's n3
20:26:19 [bblfish]
not turtle
20:26:28 [bblfish]
and few tools parse n3
20:26:35 [presbrey]
arg
20:34:34 [presbrey]
curl -vH 'Accept: text/turtle, application/rdf+xml' 'http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card' 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep Content-Type
20:34:35 [presbrey]
< Content-Type: text/n3; qs=0.89
20:35:01 [presbrey]
seems bad
20:35:04 [kidehen]
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20:35:34 [presbrey]
hey Kingsley
20:35:56 [presbrey]
remind me how to find your webID?
20:35:57 [kidehen]
@presbrey : still getting hang when I present my WebID to data.fm . This time its at the manage stage. I am testing from Chrome
20:36:23 [presbrey]
try: http://data.fm/test/webid
20:36:27 [presbrey]
oops
20:36:30 [presbrey]
https://data.fm/test/webid
20:36:39 [presbrey]
yes that will need https:
20:36:58 [presbrey]
id.openlink...?
20:37:31 [kidehen]
@presbrey: http://id.myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/KingsleyUyiIdehen#this
20:39:35 [presbrey]
what does your [claim] say?
20:40:07 [kidehen]
you mean: what's the relation connecting WebID to public key in my graph?
20:40:50 [kidehen]
<presbrey> : what are you actually looking up?
20:42:12 [presbrey]
if you go to https://data.fm/test/webid, you should see a [claim] section
20:43:56 [presbrey]
there is also a [lookup] section and [verified]
20:44:04 [kidehen]
<presbrey>: I see that
20:44:21 [presbrey]
the claim section should say:
20:44:23 [presbrey]
[uri] => http://id.myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/KingsleyUyiIdehen#this
20:44:28 [kidehen]
<presbrey> I see: [verified] => http://id.myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/KingsleyUyiIdehen#this
20:44:42 [presbrey]
great so yours works! :)
20:45:57 [kidehen]
<presbrey> : yes, but I can't get going with setting up my space in data.fm. Eons ago (first cut of this) it all worked fine
20:46:19 [presbrey]
thanks Kinglsey!
20:46:24 [presbrey]
just go to any new cloud and PUT
20:46:35 [presbrey]
https://kingsleysnewone.data.fm
20:47:14 [melvster1]
kidehen: try http://vote.data.fm/
20:47:40 [kidehen]
<presbrey>, <melvster1> : ok
20:48:17 [kidehen]
<presbrey>: https://kingsleysnewone.data.fm/, works
20:50:18 [kidehen]
<melvster1> : as you can see from ++ on http://vote.data.fm/, it worked :-)
20:50:27 [melvster1]
yay
20:52:05 [kidehen]
<melvster1> <presbrey> : next is getting the simple Resource CRUD pattern working properly for all RDF formats. Early next week (latest) I'll demonstrate how ODS-Briefcase does this with its old circa. 2000 UI (we'll update this with HTML5 + JS soon)
20:57:24 [kidehen]
ok by for now
20:57:57 [kidehen]
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21:09:10 [bblfish]
ok, I sent a message out regarding hexBinary to the list
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