IRC log of dig on 2012-03-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- 13:30:41 [bblfish_]
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- 14:07:02 [bblfish]
- yet another identity group in the W3C http://www.w3.org/community/blog/2012/03/14/call-for-participation-in-user-identity-on-the-web-community-group/
- 14:08:17 [melvster]
- bblfish yes i was just reading about that ... do you know who proposed it?
- 14:09:11 [melvster]
- ah it says on the page
- 14:13:10 [melvster]
- oh it's one of the foaf protocols guys
- 14:13:48 [melvster]
- ah he's on the webid list too
- 14:15:58 [melvster]
- bblfish: i guess webid has to make a decision on whether it wants to focus on a broad ranging identity solution or on the WebID Protocol using x.509 etc.
- 14:16:22 [bblfish]
- I am happy with the way things are
- 14:17:19 [melvster]
- sure it's a system that works
- 14:17:47 [bblfish]
- we can extend it beyond when the technology appears, such as javascript apis in the browser
- 14:17:55 [bblfish]
- but for the moment there is no need to
- 14:20:59 [melvster]
- maybe the other group can act as a liaison
- 14:32:05 [melvster]
- bblfish presbrey: any objections if i was to be a chair of the RWW group? or anyone else want to do it?
- 14:33:34 [bblfish]
- I'd vote for presbrey
- 14:33:58 [bblfish]
- given that he has done a lot of the coding on data.fm
- 14:34:53 [melvster]
- me too
- 14:35:24 [bblfish]
- though there could be 2 chairs of course, which can be better
- 14:35:37 [melvster]
- well as long as we get 1 we can continue ...
- 14:35:47 [melvster]
- it's a small group so it's a case of who can volunteer
- 14:36:40 [bblfish]
- Is presbrey even on the member list?
- 14:36:54 [melvster]
- yes
- 14:37:30 [melvster]
- tho i heard it's sometimes problematic signing up
- 14:37:37 [melvster]
- maybe that bug has been fixed now tho
- 14:41:23 [bblfish]
- well we should wait to see what presbrey says
- 14:42:50 [bblfish]
- Trying to get in contact with betehess for a while now without success
- 15:23:01 [tlr]
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- 16:27:54 [presbrey]
- sure if you have extra time or I can help too
- 16:29:51 [melvster]
- presbrey: the group needs one or more chairs to keep going, and 3+ active participants ... I dont mind putting in some effort, as I'm not involved with running any other groups, and RWW is my main interest ...
- 16:30:34 [melvster]
- maybe i can put together a chart of what everyone is working on
- 16:30:41 [melvster]
- and how we can collaborate
- 16:31:04 [presbrey]
- what are chairs main efforts?
- 16:31:33 [melvster]
- in a CG you dont have to do much, just respond to the W3C staff
- 16:31:48 [melvster]
- but obviously you can do more
- 16:31:55 [melvster]
- such as updating the wiki
- 16:32:01 [presbrey]
- timbl has a really nice chart already somewhere...
- 16:33:29 [presbrey]
- omnigraffle? was it?
- 16:33:40 [melvster]
- oh that rings a bell
- 16:34:29 [melvster]
- i guess there's tabulator / data.fm
- 16:34:34 [melvster]
- then there's the openlink stuff
- 16:34:41 [melvster]
- then there's the play stuff bblfish is building
- 16:35:13 [melvster]
- a few projects going on in webid land such as bergnet
- 16:35:45 [melvster]
- Mike Amundsen is working on some robots
- 16:35:48 [bblfish]
- yes, we are really doing webid to enable rww and social web
- 16:36:20 [melvster]
- Sherman Monroe has his own system he's working on
- 16:36:35 [melvster]
- actually the southampton guys are doing some stuff but are not in the group
- 16:37:13 [melvster]
- michiel is doing the unhosted stuff
- 16:37:50 [presbrey]
- rww means ACLs too; social means pubsub/realtime?
- 16:38:02 [melvster]
- then there's a lot of good stuff going on around sparql 1.1 and d2rq
- 16:38:05 [presbrey]
- s/means/needs/
- 16:38:20 [tlr]
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- 16:38:20 [melvster]
- i think it's just read + write as an entry level?
- 16:39:32 [melvster]
- Michael Brunnbauer is doing the foaf search stuff
- 16:40:12 [melvster]
- elf pavlik is dong the IO stuff
- 16:40:25 [melvster]
- toby has his own data wiki
- 16:40:30 [melvster]
- then there's all nathan's stuff
- 16:41:17 [melvster]
- Jürgen Jakobitsch is doing the turnguard / webid realm
- 16:43:12 [melvster]
- i think daniel renfer is doing something with one social web
- 16:43:26 [melvster]
- scor is doing the occupy / drupal stuff
- 16:44:59 [melvster]
- domel and dominique guardiola are doing some webid providers
- 16:45:15 [bblfish]
- social means you use foaf type relations for determinging access using ACLs
- 16:45:28 [bblfish]
- of course it has to be fun to use
- 16:45:59 [melvster]
- rzseno ... are you working on any RWW systems right now?
- 16:46:48 [presbrey]
- yes so many platforms for so few apps!
- 16:47:03 [melvster]
- yeah true
- 16:47:48 [melvster]
- it's a good point ... maybe we should separate out the apps and the platform work
- 16:50:04 [melvster]
- Sebastian Schaffert is working on kiwi
- 16:50:27 [melvster]
- kiwi: http://code.google.com/p/kiwi/wiki/LinkedMediaPrinciples
- 16:51:15 [melvster]
- i know sebastian tramp is going to build some social stuff too
- 16:51:25 [rszeno]
- kind of
- 16:52:06 [rszeno]
- is a little bit more comples because i use what i do in real life to test it
- 16:52:16 [rszeno]
- i'm slow because of this
- 16:53:56 [melvster]
- slow is ok :)
- 16:54:04 [rszeno]
- is hard to convince people that future is near you and you can touch it, :)
- 16:54:11 [melvster]
- lol
- 16:54:33 [melvster]
- we're just trying to track what people are working on
- 16:55:19 [rszeno]
- i promise myself to make public what i done but i'm never happy enough with it, :)
- 16:55:36 [melvster]
- ok ... whenever you're ready ... looking forward to seeing :)
- 16:55:43 [melvster]
- danja danbri mhausenblas and zazi are normally up to something interesting
- 16:56:52 [melvster]
- Julia Anaya and Yuk Hui I think are building a social net too
- 16:57:19 [melvster]
- that covers everyone in the group I think
- 16:57:48 [melvster]
- presbrey you're right ... very few apps
- 16:59:50 [melvster]
- i guess kingsley has a lot of apps, and we have some in the pipeline
- 17:00:26 [melvster]
- then there's a few people working on foaf related stuff
- 17:16:50 [bblfish]
- I keep trying to get people to re=use other people's code, but mostly people want to rewrite it
- 17:16:54 [bblfish]
- it's odd
- 17:17:22 [melvster]
- yes ive noticed that too
- 17:17:56 [bblfish]
- I can't say I am not immune
- 17:18:39 [melvster]
- i think we have good tools now
- 17:18:41 [bblfish]
- but then the people who could do it because they already have a widely deployed software ( drupal ) never do anything
- 17:19:21 [melvster]
- scor is working on drupal
- 17:19:36 [bblfish]
- I'll believe it when it's done
- 17:20:21 [bblfish]
- Anyway, the reason one has a community group is so that people can discuss some of the standards
- 17:20:27 [bblfish]
- here it's ACL ontology
- 17:20:34 [bblfish]
- SPARQL Post etc
- 17:20:44 [bblfish]
- and feedback from app developers
- 17:21:13 [bblfish]
- such as people doing foaf address books
- 17:21:26 [bblfish]
- last time I tried to bring that up on RWW I was told it was off topic though
- 17:21:33 [bblfish]
- since then it's been a very quiet list
- 17:22:51 [melvster]
- address book would be very cool ... i dont think it's off topic, but probably is a lot of work ... people have been trying to do that for as long as i can remember
- 17:23:15 [bblfish]
- why is pubishing a foaf file a lot of work?
- 17:23:58 [melvster]
- well people have been trying to do it 8+ years at least ...
- 17:24:24 [presbrey]
- like some other jobs which are too much work, you dont earn much by doing it?
- 17:25:26 [rszeno]
- foaf validation is a pain, consume time, i don't talk about syntax here
- 17:25:51 [melvster]
- i remember plaxo wanted to do FOAF in 2004
- 17:26:20 [melvster]
- http://blog.plaxo.com/2004/02/plaxo_and_foaf_/
- 17:26:44 [melvster]
- that was over 8 years ago
- 17:27:43 [rszeno]
- plus are only few places where foaf can be really used
- 17:28:06 [bblfish]
- it's not that, its a question of publishing it
- 17:28:15 [bblfish]
- SPARQL update, post
- 17:28:17 [bblfish]
- whatever
- 17:28:29 [rszeno]
- why to publish? just to be there?
- 17:29:19 [bblfish]
- ok, you see that group is going nowhere
- 17:29:27 [rszeno]
- as presbrey said, what i earn using this?
- 17:29:58 [rszeno]
- no, is not right, we need applications and tools to use foaf
- 17:30:01 [bblfish]
- I'll let you know when I make some money off it
- 17:30:09 [rszeno]
- not money
- 17:30:15 [bblfish]
- why should I tell you why
- 17:30:19 [bblfish]
- if you can't think
- 17:30:43 [bblfish]
- in any case I wrote about it at lenght
- 17:30:52 [rszeno]
- think i can access a forum using foaf, or the web community group
- 17:30:52 [bblfish]
- just look up the presentations at http://bblfish.net/
- 17:31:03 [rszeno]
- then i have a reason to use it
- 17:31:16 [bblfish]
- well you should not be in a research list then
- 17:31:26 [rszeno]
- ok, :)
- 17:31:32 [bblfish]
- wait for the products to be ready
- 17:31:47 [bblfish]
- in the mean time, just sit in front of TV and watch what people tell you is right
- 17:31:56 [rszeno]
- i don't wait, this is what i doing
- 17:33:26 [rszeno]
- i only said that we need more real life app
- 17:36:08 [tlr]
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- 17:36:53 [bblfish]
- so build them
- 17:37:19 [rszeno]
- as i said, this is what i'm doing
- 17:38:15 [rszeno]
- but i can't convince people to pay me by asking them to look to video, must work and prove that are useful
- 17:39:00 [bblfish]
- well you have done a pretty crap job until now
- 17:39:06 [bblfish]
- since nobody is concinced
- 17:39:32 [rszeno]
- well this is your opinion, i live from this, so that's it, :)
- 17:39:38 [melvster]
- rszeno: you can get paid for building apps
- 17:39:59 [melvster]
- there's a few foundations that will fund standards based work, then there's crowd sourcing
- 17:40:06 [rszeno]
- yes melvster, is true
- 17:40:22 [bblfish]
- you're probably paid by some state enterprise that would pay you to fill a hole if you were not doing what you are doing
- 17:41:11 [bblfish]
- anyway just kidding
- 17:41:53 [bblfish]
- but well "it has never been done before" is the talk of a state sponsored wanna be enterpreneur
- 17:42:14 [rszeno]
- the problem is not what i'm doing, we talk about comunity and what can be done, i guess
- 17:42:22 [melvster]
- there was an article recently that said the best way for a country to get competitive advantage is to micro fund entrepreneurs e.g. like lots of little kickstarter grants
- 17:43:07 [tlr]
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- 17:43:51 [rszeno]
- yes, support for small bussiness
- 17:46:31 [rszeno]
- big companies pay much more then small business but are slow, not so flexible
- 17:48:25 [tlr]
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- 17:55:44 [rszeno]
- rww, acl, web if are essential but also reasoning, whitout it you can't implement authorization in a flexible way, not hardcoded
- 17:56:21 [rszeno]
- and people in real life have a lot of ideas about what authorization mean
- 17:57:27 [rszeno]
- s/web if/webid/
- 19:41:59 [presbrey]
- by earn I didn't mean money, value more generic or abstract
- 19:42:46 [presbrey]
- did facebook hold value to you before your friends were there?
- 19:44:42 [presbrey]
- but we should at least get it to work in our/closed-world amongst ourselves :)
- 19:45:28 [melvster]
- presbrey: did you see facebook actually serves pretty nice turtle that works in tabulator ...
- 19:45:46 [rszeno]
- is not closed as far we can make it useful for others, :)
- 19:51:51 [rszeno]
- melvster, congratulation, :)
- 19:51:54 [presbrey]
- bblfish, who needs to convince? doesn't the value speak for itself?
- 19:52:10 [melvster]
- rszeno: lol thx :)
- 19:52:29 [presbrey]
- melvster, on graph.fb?
- 19:52:36 [bblfish]
- well I agree the value of distributed social networks speaks for itself
- 19:52:43 [bblfish]
- rszeno wanted convincing
- 19:52:55 [melvster]
- tho really im happy just to do my little bit, if anyone else wanted to chair Id be fine with that ... but I guess I can put some extra effort in :)
- 19:53:13 [bblfish]
- I think it's good that you do it
- 19:53:13 [presbrey]
- maybe tabulator could use the rest of their api in conjunction
- 19:53:33 [melvster]
- presbrey: yes graph.facebook.com
- 19:53:33 [rszeno]
- bblfish, you make a lot of wrong assumption
- 19:53:42 [presbrey]
- some of their graph endpoints take POST/PUT too
- 19:54:09 [melvster]
- yes i think so + OAuth
- 19:57:03 [presbrey]
- aw is their access_token deprecated?
- 20:02:21 [melvster]
- presbrey: I can still log in
- 20:02:25 [melvster]
- from data.fm
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- 20:45:44 [bblfish]
- in any case it still is the case that a publishing a foaf file to the read-write-web is a cool use case
- 20:45:50 [bblfish]
- and that it was shot down on rww
- 20:45:59 [bblfish]
- community group
- 20:46:04 [bblfish]
- we'll see how things progress
- 20:48:15 [melvster]
- we'll have bergnet working soon
- 20:48:38 [melvster]
- and hopefully tabulator foaf pane
- 20:52:55 [presbrey]
- yes bblfish, foaf is interesting to tabulator; dont be discouraged by grumpy audiences :)
- 20:54:04 [bblfish]
- ok, was probably over stressed at the time with WebID anyway... But I'd like at some point in the future (soon/months) to get back to it
- 20:54:31 [presbrey]
- melvster, your rdfapi gist: does this have fixes from webr3's latest?
- 20:55:33 [melvster]
- presbrey: i copied it from what the location i last knew ... hopefully webr3 will be back to helping us again soon, spoke to him earlier today ...
- 20:56:20 [rszeno]
- bblfish, webid + foaf, https://resourceme.bergnet.org/news/
- 20:57:14 [rszeno]
- this is what i mean, a reason to use them: post comments
- 20:57:56 [bblfish]
- nice site
- 20:58:10 [bblfish]
- can't log in there for some reason. I'll have to get back to him...
- 20:58:15 [rszeno]
- yes, very nice
- 20:59:45 [presbrey]
- bergnet doesn't take my webid
- 20:59:53 [presbrey]
- it says 'Not all public keys are well formed'
- 21:00:42 [rszeno]
- i didn't have problems but probably this is because i test my foaf with bergi tool too before
- 21:01:07 [rszeno]
- turnguads and bergi
- 21:02:54 [rszeno]
- and, .fm tester, but i forget to mention, :)
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