IRC log of dig on 2012-03-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

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14:07:02 [bblfish]
yet another identity group in the W3C http://www.w3.org/community/blog/2012/03/14/call-for-participation-in-user-identity-on-the-web-community-group/
14:08:17 [melvster]
bblfish yes i was just reading about that ... do you know who proposed it?
14:09:11 [melvster]
ah it says on the page
14:13:10 [melvster]
oh it's one of the foaf protocols guys
14:13:48 [melvster]
ah he's on the webid list too
14:15:58 [melvster]
bblfish: i guess webid has to make a decision on whether it wants to focus on a broad ranging identity solution or on the WebID Protocol using x.509 etc.
14:16:22 [bblfish]
I am happy with the way things are
14:17:19 [melvster]
sure it's a system that works
14:17:47 [bblfish]
we can extend it beyond when the technology appears, such as javascript apis in the browser
14:17:55 [bblfish]
but for the moment there is no need to
14:20:59 [melvster]
maybe the other group can act as a liaison
14:32:05 [melvster]
bblfish presbrey: any objections if i was to be a chair of the RWW group? or anyone else want to do it?
14:33:34 [bblfish]
I'd vote for presbrey
14:33:58 [bblfish]
given that he has done a lot of the coding on data.fm
14:34:53 [melvster]
me too
14:35:24 [bblfish]
though there could be 2 chairs of course, which can be better
14:35:37 [melvster]
well as long as we get 1 we can continue ...
14:35:47 [melvster]
it's a small group so it's a case of who can volunteer
14:36:40 [bblfish]
Is presbrey even on the member list?
14:36:54 [melvster]
yes
14:37:30 [melvster]
tho i heard it's sometimes problematic signing up
14:37:37 [melvster]
maybe that bug has been fixed now tho
14:41:23 [bblfish]
well we should wait to see what presbrey says
14:42:50 [bblfish]
Trying to get in contact with betehess for a while now without success
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16:27:54 [presbrey]
sure if you have extra time or I can help too
16:29:51 [melvster]
presbrey: the group needs one or more chairs to keep going, and 3+ active participants ... I dont mind putting in some effort, as I'm not involved with running any other groups, and RWW is my main interest ...
16:30:34 [melvster]
maybe i can put together a chart of what everyone is working on
16:30:41 [melvster]
and how we can collaborate
16:31:04 [presbrey]
what are chairs main efforts?
16:31:33 [melvster]
in a CG you dont have to do much, just respond to the W3C staff
16:31:48 [melvster]
but obviously you can do more
16:31:55 [melvster]
such as updating the wiki
16:32:01 [presbrey]
timbl has a really nice chart already somewhere...
16:33:29 [presbrey]
omnigraffle? was it?
16:33:40 [melvster]
oh that rings a bell
16:34:29 [melvster]
i guess there's tabulator / data.fm
16:34:34 [melvster]
then there's the openlink stuff
16:34:41 [melvster]
then there's the play stuff bblfish is building
16:35:13 [melvster]
a few projects going on in webid land such as bergnet
16:35:45 [melvster]
Mike Amundsen is working on some robots
16:35:48 [bblfish]
yes, we are really doing webid to enable rww and social web
16:36:20 [melvster]
Sherman Monroe has his own system he's working on
16:36:35 [melvster]
actually the southampton guys are doing some stuff but are not in the group
16:37:13 [melvster]
michiel is doing the unhosted stuff
16:37:50 [presbrey]
rww means ACLs too; social means pubsub/realtime?
16:38:02 [melvster]
then there's a lot of good stuff going on around sparql 1.1 and d2rq
16:38:05 [presbrey]
s/means/needs/
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16:38:20 [melvster]
i think it's just read + write as an entry level?
16:39:32 [melvster]
Michael Brunnbauer is doing the foaf search stuff
16:40:12 [melvster]
elf pavlik is dong the IO stuff
16:40:25 [melvster]
toby has his own data wiki
16:40:30 [melvster]
then there's all nathan's stuff
16:41:17 [melvster]
Jürgen Jakobitsch is doing the turnguard / webid realm
16:43:12 [melvster]
i think daniel renfer is doing something with one social web
16:43:26 [melvster]
scor is doing the occupy / drupal stuff
16:44:59 [melvster]
domel and dominique guardiola are doing some webid providers
16:45:15 [bblfish]
social means you use foaf type relations for determinging access using ACLs
16:45:28 [bblfish]
of course it has to be fun to use
16:45:59 [melvster]
rzseno ... are you working on any RWW systems right now?
16:46:48 [presbrey]
yes so many platforms for so few apps!
16:47:03 [melvster]
yeah true
16:47:48 [melvster]
it's a good point ... maybe we should separate out the apps and the platform work
16:50:04 [melvster]
Sebastian Schaffert is working on kiwi
16:50:27 [melvster]
kiwi: http://code.google.com/p/kiwi/wiki/LinkedMediaPrinciples
16:51:15 [melvster]
i know sebastian tramp is going to build some social stuff too
16:51:25 [rszeno]
kind of
16:52:06 [rszeno]
is a little bit more comples because i use what i do in real life to test it
16:52:16 [rszeno]
i'm slow because of this
16:53:56 [melvster]
slow is ok :)
16:54:04 [rszeno]
is hard to convince people that future is near you and you can touch it, :)
16:54:11 [melvster]
lol
16:54:33 [melvster]
we're just trying to track what people are working on
16:55:19 [rszeno]
i promise myself to make public what i done but i'm never happy enough with it, :)
16:55:36 [melvster]
ok ... whenever you're ready ... looking forward to seeing :)
16:55:43 [melvster]
danja danbri mhausenblas and zazi are normally up to something interesting
16:56:52 [melvster]
Julia Anaya and Yuk Hui I think are building a social net too
16:57:19 [melvster]
that covers everyone in the group I think
16:57:48 [melvster]
presbrey you're right ... very few apps
16:59:50 [melvster]
i guess kingsley has a lot of apps, and we have some in the pipeline
17:00:26 [melvster]
then there's a few people working on foaf related stuff
17:16:50 [bblfish]
I keep trying to get people to re=use other people's code, but mostly people want to rewrite it
17:16:54 [bblfish]
it's odd
17:17:22 [melvster]
yes ive noticed that too
17:17:56 [bblfish]
I can't say I am not immune
17:18:39 [melvster]
i think we have good tools now
17:18:41 [bblfish]
but then the people who could do it because they already have a widely deployed software ( drupal ) never do anything
17:19:21 [melvster]
scor is working on drupal
17:19:36 [bblfish]
I'll believe it when it's done
17:20:21 [bblfish]
Anyway, the reason one has a community group is so that people can discuss some of the standards
17:20:27 [bblfish]
here it's ACL ontology
17:20:34 [bblfish]
SPARQL Post etc
17:20:44 [bblfish]
and feedback from app developers
17:21:13 [bblfish]
such as people doing foaf address books
17:21:26 [bblfish]
last time I tried to bring that up on RWW I was told it was off topic though
17:21:33 [bblfish]
since then it's been a very quiet list
17:22:51 [melvster]
address book would be very cool ... i dont think it's off topic, but probably is a lot of work ... people have been trying to do that for as long as i can remember
17:23:15 [bblfish]
why is pubishing a foaf file a lot of work?
17:23:58 [melvster]
well people have been trying to do it 8+ years at least ...
17:24:24 [presbrey]
like some other jobs which are too much work, you dont earn much by doing it?
17:25:26 [rszeno]
foaf validation is a pain, consume time, i don't talk about syntax here
17:25:51 [melvster]
i remember plaxo wanted to do FOAF in 2004
17:26:20 [melvster]
http://blog.plaxo.com/2004/02/plaxo_and_foaf_/
17:26:44 [melvster]
that was over 8 years ago
17:27:43 [rszeno]
plus are only few places where foaf can be really used
17:28:06 [bblfish]
it's not that, its a question of publishing it
17:28:15 [bblfish]
SPARQL update, post
17:28:17 [bblfish]
whatever
17:28:29 [rszeno]
why to publish? just to be there?
17:29:19 [bblfish]
ok, you see that group is going nowhere
17:29:27 [rszeno]
as presbrey said, what i earn using this?
17:29:58 [rszeno]
no, is not right, we need applications and tools to use foaf
17:30:01 [bblfish]
I'll let you know when I make some money off it
17:30:09 [rszeno]
not money
17:30:15 [bblfish]
why should I tell you why
17:30:19 [bblfish]
if you can't think
17:30:43 [bblfish]
in any case I wrote about it at lenght
17:30:52 [rszeno]
think i can access a forum using foaf, or the web community group
17:30:52 [bblfish]
just look up the presentations at http://bblfish.net/
17:31:03 [rszeno]
then i have a reason to use it
17:31:16 [bblfish]
well you should not be in a research list then
17:31:26 [rszeno]
ok, :)
17:31:32 [bblfish]
wait for the products to be ready
17:31:47 [bblfish]
in the mean time, just sit in front of TV and watch what people tell you is right
17:31:56 [rszeno]
i don't wait, this is what i doing
17:33:26 [rszeno]
i only said that we need more real life app
17:36:08 [tlr]
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17:36:53 [bblfish]
so build them
17:37:19 [rszeno]
as i said, this is what i'm doing
17:38:15 [rszeno]
but i can't convince people to pay me by asking them to look to video, must work and prove that are useful
17:39:00 [bblfish]
well you have done a pretty crap job until now
17:39:06 [bblfish]
since nobody is concinced
17:39:32 [rszeno]
well this is your opinion, i live from this, so that's it, :)
17:39:38 [melvster]
rszeno: you can get paid for building apps
17:39:59 [melvster]
there's a few foundations that will fund standards based work, then there's crowd sourcing
17:40:06 [rszeno]
yes melvster, is true
17:40:22 [bblfish]
you're probably paid by some state enterprise that would pay you to fill a hole if you were not doing what you are doing
17:41:11 [bblfish]
anyway just kidding
17:41:53 [bblfish]
but well "it has never been done before" is the talk of a state sponsored wanna be enterpreneur
17:42:14 [rszeno]
the problem is not what i'm doing, we talk about comunity and what can be done, i guess
17:42:22 [melvster]
there was an article recently that said the best way for a country to get competitive advantage is to micro fund entrepreneurs e.g. like lots of little kickstarter grants
17:43:07 [tlr]
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17:43:51 [rszeno]
yes, support for small bussiness
17:46:31 [rszeno]
big companies pay much more then small business but are slow, not so flexible
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17:55:44 [rszeno]
rww, acl, web if are essential but also reasoning, whitout it you can't implement authorization in a flexible way, not hardcoded
17:56:21 [rszeno]
and people in real life have a lot of ideas about what authorization mean
17:57:27 [rszeno]
s/web if/webid/
19:41:59 [presbrey]
by earn I didn't mean money, value more generic or abstract
19:42:46 [presbrey]
did facebook hold value to you before your friends were there?
19:44:42 [presbrey]
but we should at least get it to work in our/closed-world amongst ourselves :)
19:45:28 [melvster]
presbrey: did you see facebook actually serves pretty nice turtle that works in tabulator ...
19:45:46 [rszeno]
is not closed as far we can make it useful for others, :)
19:51:51 [rszeno]
melvster, congratulation, :)
19:51:54 [presbrey]
bblfish, who needs to convince? doesn't the value speak for itself?
19:52:10 [melvster]
rszeno: lol thx :)
19:52:29 [presbrey]
melvster, on graph.fb?
19:52:36 [bblfish]
well I agree the value of distributed social networks speaks for itself
19:52:43 [bblfish]
rszeno wanted convincing
19:52:55 [melvster]
tho really im happy just to do my little bit, if anyone else wanted to chair Id be fine with that ... but I guess I can put some extra effort in :)
19:53:13 [bblfish]
I think it's good that you do it
19:53:13 [presbrey]
maybe tabulator could use the rest of their api in conjunction
19:53:33 [melvster]
presbrey: yes graph.facebook.com
19:53:33 [rszeno]
bblfish, you make a lot of wrong assumption
19:53:42 [presbrey]
some of their graph endpoints take POST/PUT too
19:54:09 [melvster]
yes i think so + OAuth
19:57:03 [presbrey]
aw is their access_token deprecated?
20:02:21 [melvster]
presbrey: I can still log in
20:02:25 [melvster]
from data.fm
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20:45:44 [bblfish]
in any case it still is the case that a publishing a foaf file to the read-write-web is a cool use case
20:45:50 [bblfish]
and that it was shot down on rww
20:45:59 [bblfish]
community group
20:46:04 [bblfish]
we'll see how things progress
20:48:15 [melvster]
we'll have bergnet working soon
20:48:38 [melvster]
and hopefully tabulator foaf pane
20:52:55 [presbrey]
yes bblfish, foaf is interesting to tabulator; dont be discouraged by grumpy audiences :)
20:54:04 [bblfish]
ok, was probably over stressed at the time with WebID anyway... But I'd like at some point in the future (soon/months) to get back to it
20:54:31 [presbrey]
melvster, your rdfapi gist: does this have fixes from webr3's latest?
20:55:33 [melvster]
presbrey: i copied it from what the location i last knew ... hopefully webr3 will be back to helping us again soon, spoke to him earlier today ...
20:56:20 [rszeno]
bblfish, webid + foaf, https://resourceme.bergnet.org/news/
20:57:14 [rszeno]
this is what i mean, a reason to use them: post comments
20:57:56 [bblfish]
nice site
20:58:10 [bblfish]
can't log in there for some reason. I'll have to get back to him...
20:58:15 [rszeno]
yes, very nice
20:59:45 [presbrey]
bergnet doesn't take my webid
20:59:53 [presbrey]
it says 'Not all public keys are well formed'
21:00:42 [rszeno]
i didn't have problems but probably this is because i test my foaf with bergi tool too before
21:01:07 [rszeno]
turnguads and bergi
21:02:54 [rszeno]
and, .fm tester, but i forget to mention, :)
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