IRC log of dig on 2012-04-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:12:40 [DIGlogger]
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topic is: Decentralized Information Group @ MIT http://dig.csail.mit.edu/
11:12:41 [calvino.freenode.net]
Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS cheater__ melvster danbri rszeno Deiu kennyluck presbrey Yudai___ mattl tlr manu-db manu1 nunnun bergi sandro ericP
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15:44:42 [Deiu]
melvster, just added a new feature :)
15:45:57 [Deiu]
when you browse your friends, you had the possibility to go down the social graph and see the friends of your friends
15:46:54 [Deiu]
now you have an "Add" button to add those people to your friends list as well :)
15:47:00 [Deiu]
(only in case they don't already exist)
15:51:41 [melvster]
Deiu: amazing!
15:52:56 [melvster]
hmmm i dont seem to have anyone in my friends list ...
15:53:33 [Deiu]
hmm
15:53:34 [Deiu]
sec
15:54:54 [Deiu]
should work now
15:56:25 [melvster]
friends works
15:56:31 [melvster]
friends of friends works too
15:56:42 [melvster]
but i dont see an add button ... do they need pingback?
15:56:57 [Deiu]
Nope
15:57:02 [melvster]
oh ... or do i need to be part of my-profile.eu?
15:57:12 [Deiu]
ah yes
15:57:19 [Deiu]
otherwise I can't add it to your profile :)
15:57:34 [melvster]
unless we use DAV or SPARQL Update
15:57:39 [melvster]
or i add it by hand
15:57:50 [melvster]
ok cool!
15:57:51 [melvster]
very nice
15:58:34 [melvster]
i guess we should develop a protocol for friending
15:58:54 [melvster]
across different spaces
15:59:29 [Deiu]
yes, that should be on top of the priority list
15:59:38 [melvster]
then we can go viral! :)
16:01:37 [presbrey]
can I install my-profile as my foaf data skin, like tabulator allows?
16:02:51 [presbrey]
via github pages, on my own server, and/or decentralized, etc.?
16:04:04 [Deiu]
presbrey, nope
16:04:12 [Deiu]
my-profile is a mess atm
16:04:36 [Deiu]
but I will fix that in the coming months
16:04:44 [Deiu]
right now it's more of a demo/hack
16:04:48 [presbrey]
aw I was hoping so since I still cant login
16:05:15 [presbrey]
if you are going that direction, you should try before too many features get you entrenched into php instead of JS :)
16:05:39 [Deiu]
yes
16:05:43 [Deiu]
I totally agree
16:06:08 [Deiu]
however, I though having a demo running in time for www2012 would be nice
16:06:26 [presbrey]
yes very cool
16:06:33 [Deiu]
I mean for anyone wanting to try WebID and semantic web in general during the conf
16:06:44 [melvster]
it's really a bit jump forward for us
16:07:25 [Deiu]
bbl
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19:50:58 [Deiu]
melvster, I've just made the friending a LOT easier now :)
19:51:11 [melvster]
you did?
19:51:22 [Deiu]
Can you login with your local profile for a sec?
19:51:52 [melvster]
sure
19:52:34 [melvster]
oh cool
19:52:38 [melvster]
'add to my friends'
19:52:44 [Deiu]
:)
19:52:57 [Deiu]
No more fiddling with URIs
19:52:59 [melvster]
haha cool
19:53:11 [Deiu]
works even when browsing friends
19:53:19 [Deiu]
though it has to reload the list
19:53:27 [melvster]
i really like the way you can add links now to the wall too!
19:53:33 [Deiu]
but hey, linked data is always fresh!
19:53:47 [Deiu]
yeah
19:53:57 [Deiu]
I need to work on some sort of @name system
19:54:15 [melvster]
hmmm
19:54:53 [melvster]
you mean for foaf : nick ?
19:54:58 [melvster]
but you're going to get collisions
19:55:11 [melvster]
and you can have more than 1 nick
19:55:24 [melvster]
in an open world assumption it's even more tricky
19:55:59 [Deiu]
no
19:56:18 [Deiu]
I want to link @name to the webid of the post's author
19:56:31 [Deiu]
umm
19:56:44 [Deiu]
yeah, I see what you mean
19:58:46 [melvster]
tricky one ...
20:07:40 [melvster]
Deiu: kingsley is testing pingback now
20:09:14 [manu-db]
timbl: "Is #JSONLD just the next RDF/XML? Does it put the RDF model in a syntax that just doesn't fit? asks @timberners_lee at #ldow2012 #www2012" -- was this just thinking out loud, or do you have specific areas where you're concerned with JSON-LDs direction?
20:09:21 [melvster]
Deiu: when i click on the 'ping' button in friends for kingsley nothing happens
20:09:33 [manu-db]
timbl: feedback on JSON-LD seems to be largely positive now, but I'm sure that was the case with RDF/XML as well...
20:10:05 [melvster]
Deiu: script seems to time out on Firefox
20:11:02 [manu-db]
timbl: In any case - feel free to put a few sentences in here w/ your concerns and we'll try to discuss them during the next meeting: http://json-ld.org/minutes/
20:11:44 [melvster]
and in chrome : 'Could not find a pingback service for the given WebID.'
20:12:12 [melvster]
manu-db: that's great news! I like JSON LD a lot ...
20:13:26 [Deiu]
melvster, let me check
20:13:42 [manu-db]
melvster: good to hear - although timbl's concern is now concerning me as we had dismissed many of the parallels with RDF/XML in the past.
20:14:58 [melvster]
Deiu: i got kingsley in a skype window if that might be easier to debug ...
20:15:04 [Deiu]
melvster, hold on
20:15:11 [melvster]
ok np :)
20:18:11 [Deiu]
http://id.myopenlink.net/semping/rest/?source=&target=&comment=
20:18:23 [Deiu]
those are the parameters the service should accept
20:18:33 [manu-db]
timbl: Ted Thibodeau said it best: "RDF/XML wasn't an attempt to add semantics to XML, it was an attempt to express (serialize) RDF as XML. and it is functional, to an extent. just not pretty. or really human friendly. or scale-ably machine friendly."
20:18:48 [manu-db]
timbl: In this way, JSON-LD is closer to XML+RDFa than it is to RDF/XML.
20:19:57 [Deiu]
melvster, http://www.w3.org/wiki/Pingback
20:20:11 [RalphS]
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20:20:12 [Deiu]
There's an RDFa representation there for the form
20:20:41 [Deiu]
only 3 variables are needed: source, target and comment
20:21:44 [melvster]
thanks, i passed on that info to kingsley
20:24:08 [Deiu]
besides, I'm also checking to see if the service expresses the form in RDF
20:25:11 [Deiu]
from the wiki: "The resource which is the object of the pingback:to relation should be one that does the following (more below):"
20:31:38 [melvster]
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML//EN"> <html> <head> <title>Error 37000</title> </head> <body> <h3>Error 37000</h3><pre> SP029: Not enough input parameters in the request </pre></body> </html>
20:31:51 [melvster]
is what i get from ODS ... i sent that over to them
20:32:18 [melvster]
it's interesting kingsley is using his linked in account to login to 'my profile'!
20:38:25 [imitko]
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20:38:50 [melvster]
hi imitko!
20:39:20 [melvster]
Deiu: imitko is from openlink, and may be able to help us get the pingback interop working
20:41:04 [imitko]
hi all
20:41:32 [Deiu]
cool
20:41:35 [Deiu]
hey imitko
20:41:56 [Deiu]
imitko, have you seen http://www.w3.org/wiki/Pingback ?
20:42:09 [imitko]
i know the spec
20:42:26 [imitko]
the point here is how ping client decide what to do ?
20:42:54 [imitko]
in our implementation we send pings when we have <source> ?p <target> relation written to the <source> graph
20:43:12 [Deiu]
the ping client is just a form
20:43:31 [Deiu]
with source, destination and comment inputs
20:43:32 [imitko]
but this is just a fake claim
20:43:48 [imitko]
this is web 2 approach
20:43:49 [Deiu]
https://my-profile.eu/notification.php
20:44:11 [Deiu]
it should have some markup to indicate that it's a semantic pingback endpoint
20:44:32 [Deiu]
in my case, I'm checking for "pingback:Container"
20:46:38 [imitko]
i see , so you don't look inside <source> if it actually have pingback:to or ping back:service
20:46:49 [imitko]
sorr in <targer>
20:46:56 [imitko]
sorry i meant in <targer>
20:48:17 [imitko]
btw: what happened with xmlrpc variant ? is it obsolete now
20:51:33 [Deiu]
yeah, I think it's obsolete now
20:52:14 [Deiu]
and no, I'm just checking to see if the service is compatible with semantic pingback, otherwise I fallback to the xmlrpc one
20:55:32 [rszeno]
rpc obsolete? that means you need to do everything manualy?
20:56:57 [Deiu]
nope
20:57:14 [Deiu]
it means that the old semantic pingback protocol is obsolete
20:58:13 [rszeno]
and how newone will work? using forms?
21:00:06 [imitko]
i just : <https://my-profile.eu/people/imitko/card#me> to <http://id.myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/imitko#this> and got "Your notification has been successfully delivered!" , but see no any request to id.myopenlink.net ?
21:04:04 [imitko]
i would expect client to get the ref graph of target, take pingback:to relation and send http/rest . i would say the service form rdfa is kind of optional since the service is known
21:05:23 [Deiu]
checking for compatibility is always a good idea :)
21:06:58 [Deiu]
You have two pingback:to relations? http://id.myopenlink.net/semping, http://id.myopenlink.net/semping/rest
21:10:09 [imitko]
should be only second , let me fix the graph
21:14:36 [imitko]
Deiu: now it must be only http://id.myopenlink.net/semping/rest
21:23:02 [Deiu]
ok
21:23:03 [imitko]
also added the html/rdfa form at http://id.myopenlink.net/semping/rest but still no http access to id.myopenlink.net :-(
21:23:21 [Deiu]
No http access?
21:23:57 [imitko]
i don't see request for post nor get in http log from https://my-profile.eu/notification.php
21:24:36 [Deiu]
weird
21:24:52 [Deiu]
I've tried using your new form and I get an error after submitting
21:24:59 [Deiu]
Error 22023
21:25:04 [Deiu]
Source does not contains any relation to target
21:25:24 [Deiu]
does it matter that I have no relation?
21:25:42 [imitko]
sure, ping claims it has
21:26:02 [Deiu]
I've added you and I still get the same error
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21:26:24 [Deiu]
hmm
21:26:25 [Deiu]
wait
21:27:36 [Deiu]
nope
21:27:52 [Deiu]
I have you as foaf:knows, but I still get that error
21:31:51 [imitko]
what is your profile page URI so i can debug ?
21:38:14 [Deiu]
https://my-profile.eu/people/deiu/card#me
21:43:00 [imitko]
note: <foaf:knows>http://id.myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/imitko#this</foaf:knows>
21:43:08 [imitko]
this is a Literal not an IRI
21:43:31 [imitko]
should be : <foaf:knows ref:resource="http://id.myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/imitko#this"/>
21:43:37 [imitko]
thus it fails
21:46:58 [imitko]
correction: rdf:resource , not ref:resource
21:50:55 [Deiu]
hmm
21:50:59 [Deiu]
let me see
22:06:21 [Deiu]
thanks, I'll look into it tomorrow. :)
22:07:53 [imitko]
ok, bye. see u tomorrow!
22:08:26 [imitko]
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22:14:21 [Deiu]
at least I've finished the edit of posts
22:14:29 [Deiu]
off to sleep now
22:14:30 [Deiu]
o/
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