IRC log of dig on 2012-10-09
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- 09:46:42 [bblfish]
- timbl: I think I have just made a deep simplification proposal to ldp spec :D with http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/20 see mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Oct/0097.html
- 09:46:58 [bblfish]
- by using relative URIs instead of bnodes
- 09:47:13 [bblfish]
- A really clear use case for when relative URIs are needed!
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- 11:27:02 [asimov.freenode.net]
- topic is: Decentralized Information Group @ MIT http://dig.csail.mit.edu/
- 11:27:02 [asimov.freenode.net]
- Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS deiu melvster1 rszeno timbl danbri bblfish webr3 ericP tyteen4a03 trueg_away manu1 presbrey sandro manu-db dsheets mattl bergi_ Yudai
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- topic is: Decentralized Information Group @ MIT http://dig.csail.mit.edu/
- 11:27:29 [zelazny.freenode.net]
- Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS deiu melvster1 rszeno timbl danbri bblfish webr3 ericP tyteen4a03 trueg_away manu1 presbrey sandro manu-db dsheets Yudai bergi_ mattl
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- 12:26:05 [bblfish]
- for DIGLogger I think I have just made a deep simplification proposal to ldp spec :D with http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/20 see mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Oct/0097.html by making use of relative URLs
- 12:44:25 [webr3]
- bblfish, perhaps the problem is higher up.. why post it to a container to create, rather put it to (anywhere) and then post a relation to say that <thing> is to be considered a member of said container - which also solves the later problemt hat one thing may be a member of multiple containers (groups/sets etc)
- 12:44:59 [bblfish]
- because if you PUT then you could overwrite something by mistake
- 12:45:09 [bblfish]
- that is why POST is very important
- 12:48:14 [webr3]
- okay, then what you propose (if I understand after skimming) makes sense, throw in a relative URI / frag identifier, and let it be relative to the undefined base of the document.. so <me> if posted to /container and stored as /container/12312 becomes a reference to </container/12313#me>
- 12:48:34 [webr3]
- means servers don't ahve to understand the RDF or parse and change and reserialize it
- 12:48:51 [webr3]
- nice proposal (if i understand it!)
- 12:51:38 [scor]
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- 12:53:52 [webr3]
- bblfish, you can do a PUT_IF_NOT_EXISTS easily btw.. you just do a PUT with an If-None-Match: * header, and that prevents anything being overwritten ;)
- 12:54:08 [bblfish]
- ah, I prefer POST
- 12:54:20 [bblfish]
- but interesting idea
- 12:54:24 [bblfish]
- Atom protocol uses POST
- 12:55:02 [bblfish]
- webr3: you got it!
- 12:55:04 [bblfish]
- :-)
- 12:57:01 [webr3]
- cool :-) - like the option to do both btw.. one thing I know for sure, is that I rarely use container membership to create something.. the thing normally exists and then I put it in multiple containers / sets / groups.. like people in foaf:groups, or products in multiple categories, or posts in tag groups, and so forth - rarely use the POST usecase these days, even for it's traditional list/forum-like functionality
- 12:57:16 [webr3]
- still be very nice to be able to support all the common ways people do things!
- 12:57:22 [webr3]
- good work going on w/ ldp
- 12:57:36 [webr3]
- getting through it in a no fuss, timely, manner too - kudos tot hem
- 13:06:25 [deiu]
- bblfish, are you going to http://www.openworldforum.org/ ?
- 13:06:59 [bblfish]
- forgot about that
- 13:08:01 [bblfish]
- don't have anything that interesting to show them deiu. You do though
- 13:09:01 [deiu]
- I might go on Sat
- 13:16:18 [betehess]
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- 13:30:56 [bblfish]
- hi betehess
- 13:31:06 [betehess]
- hey
- 13:31:58 [bblfish]
- did you see the conversation above?
- 13:32:15 [bblfish]
- again: I think I have just made a deep simplification proposal to ldp spec :D with http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/20 see mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Oct/0097.html by making use of relative URLs
- 13:32:38 [bblfish]
- so I was looking at GraphStoreCommand...
- 13:33:12 [amy]
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- 13:33:16 [bblfish]
- It looks like here one would in fact want to delay for a POST the parsing of the inputstream, all the way up to the point where one knows what the name of the resource is going to be betehess
- 13:33:51 [betehess]
- many things can't be done without such a feature
- 13:34:18 [bblfish]
- whithout which feature?
- 13:34:27 [bblfish]
- ah ok
- 13:34:37 [betehess]
- POSTing/PUTting a document with relative URIs
- 13:34:49 [betehess]
- it's a no-brainer
- 13:35:03 [bblfish]
- okidokey. It's cool that there is a real use case here for the meaning of relative urls :-)
- 13:35:10 [bblfish]
- s/meaning/need/
- 13:35:46 [bblfish]
- Yes, I was going to see if I could write a command to delay parsing. But if you are doing it...
- 13:36:04 [betehess]
- it's not even a use-case: without it, the whole thing becomes highly impractical :-)
- 13:36:21 [betehess]
- why do you want to delay parsing?
- 13:36:28 [betehess]
- can't you parse with relative uris?
- 13:36:43 [bblfish]
- can you have a graph that contains relative URLs?
- 13:36:49 [betehess]
- I think so
- 13:37:08 [betehess]
- also, it depends on what you do with it
- 13:37:16 [bblfish]
- ah cause I had this problem https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/issues/34
- 13:37:16 [betehess]
- if you want to do SPARQL, well, the answer is no
- 13:37:24 [bblfish]
- ah ok. don't want to sparql
- 13:38:12 [betehess]
- hrmmm
- 13:38:38 [bblfish]
- sorry to put you in a bad mood on a Tuesday morning ;-)
- 13:39:06 [bblfish]
- but to put you in a good mood the guy at Play found the TLS bug in java I had been looking for
- 13:39:42 [betehess]
- yes, I've seen that yesterday
- 13:39:53 [betehess]
- I'm just wondering...
- 13:39:57 [betehess]
- this relative-URI bug in Sesame
- 13:40:04 [amy]
- "don't want to sparql" sounds like a club hit ("my baby wants to query, but my database is empty, I don't want to sparl")
- 13:40:09 [betehess]
- I believe that I've seen that already
- 13:40:09 [betehess]
- but I thought I had a workaround
- 13:40:23 [betehess]
- let me think
- 13:41:18 [bblfish]
- well the ugly workaround is to make some stupid urn:banana: prefix
- 13:41:27 [bblfish]
- and always dereference that
- 13:42:09 [betehess]
- :-)
- 13:42:18 [betehess]
- bblfish, see https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/blob/master/sesame/src/main/scala/sesame/SesameSyntax.scala#L25
- 13:42:20 [bblfish]
- ( I mean hide it from the user ... but that is just too ugly to contemplate)
- 13:42:37 [betehess]
- no, we have a better way to solve this
- 13:42:46 [betehess]
- give me 2s
- 13:43:51 [betehess]
- bblfish, we could just provide an alternative implementation for org.openrdf.model.URI
- 13:44:08 [betehess]
- and just make Sesame#URI to use it
- 13:44:18 [bblfish]
- ah, if that works that could be good.
- 13:45:05 [betehess]
- Sesame#URI is already an alias for the interface
- 13:45:17 [betehess]
- so only SesameOps needs to be changed
- 13:45:45 [betehess]
- ok, that is weird: https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/blob/master/sesame/src/main/scala/sesame/SesameOps.scala#L52
- 13:45:57 [betehess]
- that's where I though I fixes the implementation :-)
- 13:47:46 [betehess]
- and URI.apply already uses makeURI https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/blob/master/rdf/src/main/scala/RDFDSL.scala#L27
- 13:48:04 [betehess]
- so there must be something wrong in my implementation
- 13:48:10 [bblfish]
- ah ok.
- 13:48:16 [betehess]
- ok, let's do that:
- 13:48:51 [betehess]
- 1. you write a test for relative URIs, it will be broken for Sesame
- 13:49:00 [betehess]
- 2. you mark the test with SesameWIP
- 13:49:10 [betehess]
- 3. you link to your issue
- 13:49:14 [betehess]
- 4. I'll fix it
- 13:49:42 [bblfish]
- ok. I can fix it with a new implementation of URI too if that's the solution you're looking to use
- 13:49:47 [betehess]
- you can put the test in https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/blob/master/rdf-test-suite/src/main/scala/UriSyntaxTest.scala
- 13:50:01 [bblfish]
- ok
- 13:50:09 [betehess]
- well, you can fix it, but please provide a failing test for it first :-)
- 13:50:26 [bblfish]
- ok.
- 13:50:32 [betehess]
- also, be careful: we're on Scala 2.10now!
- 13:50:41 [betehess]
- I made the move, because Play just did it
- 13:51:08 [bblfish]
- yes. well now that Play has tls support ( at least in the version by the developer ) I can move too
- 13:51:13 [bblfish]
- is it reasonably stable?
- 13:51:16 [betehess]
- I was fed up with the temporary solution for BananaValidation and BananaFuture
- 13:51:31 [betehess]
- well, I hoe so!
- 13:51:33 [betehess]
- hope so
- 13:51:47 [bblfish]
- ok. TPAC is only in 2 weeks. So need to have something by then!!!!!
- 13:52:03 [betehess]
- yeees
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- 16:00:26 [melvster1]
- presbrey: do you think we should add rel="alternative" to head requests from data.fm ... i was just reading this http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/Autodiscovery
- 16:00:37 [melvster1]
- The original 1997 RDF standards effort proposed that linked metadata be indicated in HTML documents using the rel="meta" construct. The link type was mentioned in the finally 1999 RDF recommendation from W3C. The Dublin Core community also recommended this approach for many years. However rel="meta" was never standardised within HTML. Although HTML allows for non-W3C link types, the later RDFCore WG at W3C chose to de-emphasise the "meta" link ty
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- 17:36:26 [bblfish]
- betehess: banana build succeeds now! https://travis-ci.org/#!/w3c/banana-rdf/builds/2723452
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- 18:22:31 [melvster1]
- bblfish: using hash bang URIs? O.o
- 18:22:44 [bblfish]
- where?
- 18:22:52 [bblfish]
- oh in travis
- 18:23:24 [bblfish]
- it's interesting that twitter recanted from that. So that means that it is a problem for those that do it long term
- 18:23:44 [melvster1]
- it's an anti-pattern imho
- 18:24:30 [bblfish]
- yes, an anti-patterns are anti-patterns because they make you less efficient
- 18:24:58 [bblfish]
- but anti-pattern is a good word
- 18:25:16 [bblfish]
- I wonder what SOAP was? A mega anti-pattern?
- 18:25:45 [melvster1]
- also means you lose one level of relative indirection ... you cant now add another #
- 18:25:51 [bblfish]
- anti-pattern^^googool
- 18:26:18 [bblfish]
- yep, you should talk to them about it. For us its free
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