IRC log of dig on 2012-11-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

02:02:39 [melvster]
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13:25:41 [timbl]
Ooops … can't create new issue
13:26:19 [timbl]
in http://tabulator.org/wiki/tabulator/tracker/state
13:27:17 [timbl]
(Wanted to create one to say we should implement RFC5147, fargid for plain text, esp for links to rror positions in source code)
13:52:41 [melvster]
timbl: was there an error message?
13:52:52 [timbl]
No, it just hung
13:54:30 [timbl]
hmmm … interestingly, it seems i can edit an existing one [View details.] http://tabulator.org/wiki/tabulator/tracker/state#Iss1349447911306
13:54:39 [melvster]
oh nice
13:55:17 [timbl]
so why can't I make a new one I wonder
13:55:53 [melvster]
perhaps presbrey can see if there's something in the logs
13:58:22 [melvster]
the tracker for that issue appears to be http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2010/issues/track#TabTracker
13:58:48 [melvster]
not sure if that's relevant tho
13:59:07 [timbl]
Yes. The tracker file (a read-only one) points to the state store
14:00:17 [melvster]
you can get some info such as modified time from http://tabulator.org/wiki/tabulator/tracker/ there's also an edit by hand possibility via turtle
14:01:03 [melvster]
we should probably set the .meta ACL to tabulator members at some point
14:01:22 [deiu]
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14:01:22 [deiu]
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14:01:57 [timbl]
I'm happy for nyone to be able to report a abug
14:02:24 [timbl]
Maybe I have broken the issue pane code in some wat
14:02:26 [timbl]
way
14:11:25 [timbl]
wow . that would be good
14:14:55 [GitHub66]
[13tabulator] 15timbl pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02http://git.io/KhcI1A
14:14:55 [GitHub66]
13tabulator/06master 145f7e711 15Tim Berners-Lee: playing with CSS mainly
14:15:00 [timbl]
I have been working on the attachment pane,
14:16:25 [timbl]
which I use for correlating human readable documents (invoices, receipts, etc) with things like bank transactions or trips.
14:16:41 [melvster]
ah smart
14:17:30 [melvster]
im going to spend quite a bit of time working on improving todos/trackers/tasks/issues ... and integrate with tabulator ... is going to be my main project for the next year or so at least I think ...
14:17:48 [timbl]
I have a script which generates a statement that each has type qu:SupporitingDocument and then it becomes available in the pool to choose from to teach to things.
14:18:17 [timbl]
I guess it would be good to be able to attach it to an issue or an issue message
14:18:39 [timbl]
in fact come to think of it
14:18:39 [melvster]
nice
14:19:25 [timbl]
I should make the thing a drag target too so that you can just drag the URL bar icon for a web page onto it.
14:19:35 [timbl]
and make it attach automatically
14:20:19 [melvster]
that would be neat
14:37:06 [kennyluck]
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14:44:31 [deiu]
I should have something functional by next week
14:45:03 [timbl]
Great!
14:45:31 [deiu]
timbl, if you don't mind, I've asked amy to schedule a meeting tomorrow, so we talk about it
14:45:54 [amy]
hi, yes, 2pm
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15:05:36 [micahbro]
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15:09:13 [melvster]
deiu: it would be really nice if we could add apps to a user profile in my-profile ... e.g. a way to add a calendar app or task list or games etc.
15:20:30 [deiu]
melvster, that's the whole point :-)
15:33:28 [trueg]
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19:13:57 [bblfish]
timbl, I sent an email out to the rww mailing lists to asking if we could have acl:WebIDAgent
19:14:16 [bblfish]
not sure where one is meant to discuss webacl
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19:21:57 [jorash]
Hi everyone, perhaps this is a long shot, but I'm looking for venture capital/angel connections. The Toronto-based startup I'm with is developing a p2p database that solves core problems with distribution, visualization, security and data integration. You may have seen my messages about using quantum emulation to solve problems that are thought to be intractacble for classical computers (such as
19:21:58 [jorash]
searching in a p2p network in polynomial time).
19:23:43 [jorash]
We've spoken with literally dozens of investors, but the vast majority are quite scared of tech companies that are 'too technical'. We're looking for the 1% that understands deep applied science is where the $$$ is.
20:13:39 [timbl]
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20:15:47 [presbrey]
bblfish, you know we already check agentClass foaf:Agent
20:15:59 [bblfish]
yes
20:16:06 [bblfish]
so do I
20:16:19 [bblfish]
but for testing wac:WebIDAgent would be useful
20:16:39 [bblfish]
ie, the subsets of agents with provable webids
20:17:02 [presbrey]
'for testing' isnt compelling to justify additional runtime compution/logic
20:17:14 [bblfish]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webid/2012Nov/0062.html
20:17:38 [bblfish]
it is because that is how I can build a test suite against all webid implementations
20:17:59 [bblfish]
if I know that a resource requires just WebID authentication, then I can create broken webids etc.
20:18:30 [presbrey]
you can already create broken webids
20:18:36 [presbrey]
a broken webid is not a valid foaf:Agent
20:19:11 [bblfish]
a broken webid should not be allowed access to a resource allowed only to wac:WebIDAgent
20:19:24 [bblfish]
but a validly authenticated one should
20:19:36 [bblfish]
so that's how I can test that WebID is working
20:19:53 [bblfish]
and we can built a test suite. We discussed this at TPAC
20:20:06 [bblfish]
I think people were quite happy with the idea.
20:20:52 [bblfish]
I just programmed the aditional logic in 15 minutes
20:21:07 [presbrey]
yes and now that logic will run with every request
20:21:29 [bblfish]
it just needs to iterate through the classes and do a == verification.
20:22:01 [presbrey]
perhaps the foaf:Agent check should be 'deprecated'
20:22:15 [bblfish]
I check foaf:Agent
20:22:27 [bblfish]
if there is a foaf:Agent, I don't ask for the client certificate
20:25:18 [presbrey]
don't ask? or don't require?
20:25:30 [bblfish]
don't ask
20:25:35 [bblfish]
let me see if I can find the code
20:25:42 [presbrey]
surely that can't be
20:26:19 [presbrey]
"don't ask" is a decision made during TLS, for WebID over TLS
20:26:31 [presbrey]
TLS happens before request URI is sent
20:26:32 [bblfish]
https://github.com/read-write-web/rww-play/blob/master/app/org/www/readwriteweb/play/auth/WebACL.scala#L107
20:26:41 [presbrey]
if you do not have request URI, how can you check ACL?
20:26:43 [bblfish]
presbrey: you can do TLS renegotation
20:27:12 [bblfish]
it's because people don't know this that TLS has a bad reputation for UI friendliness
20:27:28 [bblfish]
on http://webid.info/spec/ we go into a bit more detail on this
20:27:29 [presbrey]
people do know this
20:27:37 [presbrey]
TLS renegotiation has a bad reputation for security
20:28:10 [bblfish]
they fixed it
20:28:20 [bblfish]
3 years ago.
20:28:26 [bblfish]
it's pretty much in all stacks now
20:29:33 [bblfish]
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/security/jsse/JSSERefGuide.html#tlsRenegotiation
20:30:13 [bblfish]
it's kind of cool that one can do this.
20:33:15 [bblfish]
presbrey: I am told Scala is a bit like Python - functional programming wise. Does the code make sense to you?
20:34:10 [presbrey]
sure its fine
20:34:29 [presbrey]
so what if you have 2 ACLs, one allows foaf:Agent, one gives write to my webid
20:34:44 [presbrey]
then you *do* ask?
20:35:17 [bblfish]
I first filter the acls for the method requested
20:35:31 [bblfish]
then I check if nothing exists -> denied
20:35:38 [bblfish]
if foaf:Agent -> accept
20:35:58 [bblfish]
otherwise ask for certificate and
20:36:10 [bblfish]
if WebID agent -> accept webid immediately
20:36:19 [bblfish]
else keep looking
20:36:28 [bblfish]
mh. I have not yet checked in the WebIDAgent code
20:38:46 [presbrey]
ok cool
20:39:07 [presbrey]
do you know how to do that with apache httpd?
20:40:12 [bblfish]
no, but it must be doable.
20:40:18 [bblfish]
given that it is c
20:40:38 [bblfish]
but working with futures is more complex in apache I suppose
20:42:45 [presbrey]
I'm not sure how much of the ssl module you can take over from an authz
20:43:27 [bblfish]
you'd have to send the module a message
20:43:39 [bblfish]
when you want renegotation
20:43:40 [presbrey]
yes and the module would have to be listening :)
20:44:24 [bblfish]
still I suppose where there is a will there is a way
20:45:41 [bblfish]
It'll help when I have a demo of it working and put it online. Well in fact foafssl.org has been doing this for a year, but it did not have futures
20:46:35 [bblfish]
eg this is all behind ssl https://foafssl.org/srv/idp?rs=http://bblfish.net/lifeshare-3.0/Connexion
20:48:42 [trueg_away]
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20:48:53 [bblfish]
without Futures it's pretty difficult to program these things nicely
21:01:17 [timbl]
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21:02:59 [timbl]
hmmm I really don't like git, but coffee I am warming to
21:04:07 [timbl]
coffee script that it
21:18:32 [GitHub15]
[13rdflib.js] 15timbl pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02http://git.io/Cs-o5w
21:18:32 [GitHub15]
13rdflib.js/06master 147c70449 15Tim Berners-Lee: Add findMemberURIs
21:19:08 [timbl]
This is an example of how I hate git
21:19:10 [timbl]
error: failed to push some refs to 'git@github.com:linkeddata/rdflib.js.git'
21:19:10 [timbl]
To prevent you from losing history, non-fast-forward updates were rejected
21:19:11 [timbl]
Merge the remote changes (e.g. 'git pull') before pushing again. See the
21:19:12 [timbl]
'Note about fast-forwards' section of 'git push --help' for details.
21:19:13 [timbl]
---
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21:24:20 [timbl]
This when I thought I had done a complete reset and just edited ione little file
21:27:01 [DeleriuM2]
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22:25:07 [deiu]
bblfish, when is the next WebID teleconf?
22:26:24 [bblfish]
I had not set one yet. I was trying to work out when we could have a time for WebAccessControl
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