IRC log of dig on 2012-11-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- 03:27:40 [timbl]
- cwm can sign things
- 03:27:42 [timbl]
- Timestamp: 2012/11/17 22:26:55
- 03:27:43 [timbl]
- Error: WebSocket is not defined
- 03:27:44 [timbl]
- Source File: chrome://tabulator/content/js/rdf/dist/rdflib.js
- 03:27:45 [timbl]
- Line: 6630
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- 05:10:12 [presbrey]
- which browser doesnt have WebSocket timbl?
- 05:12:30 [presbrey]
- my firefox 16.0.2 and chrome 24 work
- 05:35:25 [kennyluck]
- Safari perhaps? cause it's prefixed?
- 05:47:53 [presbrey]
- the Source File looks like tabulator extension
- 05:48:23 [presbrey]
- of course it shouldnt even be triggered unless the data-source sent an 'Updates-Via' header
- 05:49:38 [presbrey]
- some (older?) firefoxes need MozWebSocket
- 05:55:03 [Snuupy]
- woah, you guys are alive!
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- 11:25:40 [kennyluck]
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- 11:56:44 [timbl]
- Firefox extension
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- 17:22:36 [GitHub32]
- [13tabulator] 15timbl pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02http://git.io/lcS-fw
- 17:22:36 [GitHub32]
- 13tabulator/06master 14b45d4dc 15Tim Berners-Lee: Attach pane basically works, right hand panel (view attached thing) is a bit of a kludge. Re-added the image pane, as the atach pane uses it.
- 17:24:11 [GitHub193]
- [13tabulator] 15timbl pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02http://git.io/Ue9Bdw
- 17:24:11 [GitHub193]
- 13tabulator/06master 14f240f96 15Tim Berners-Lee: Ooops forgot the changes to the style file
- 17:41:39 [deiu]
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- 17:47:36 [betehess]
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- 17:48:50 [betehess]
- bblfish, you actually *can* query a Sesame Graph without going through a Repository
- 17:48:54 [betehess]
- see https://github.com/w3c/banana-rdf/blob/077854b7bc51246484743743875a162deacacca3/plantain/src/main/scala/plantain/PlantainGraphSparqlEngine.scala#L19 :-)
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- 18:32:36 [deiu]
- bblfish, do you have the WebID sequence diagram as CSV?
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- 20:25:02 [bblfish]
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- 20:49:51 [presbrey]
- bblfish, if you want to have regex we should support simple globbing too
- 20:50:26 [presbrey]
- most users do not write /admin/.*, they write /admin/*
- 20:51:56 [presbrey]
- also do we really want to incorporate blank nodes? this is the first proposal to do so
- 20:54:32 [presbrey]
- such a pattern also seems to duplicate eg.
- 20:54:41 [presbrey]
- acl:defaultForNew </admin/>
- 20:57:00 [presbrey]
- also in this particular scenario, it costs more to compile the regex pattern than to evaluate it
- 20:58:26 [presbrey]
- in more complex examples, the server now needs a resident regex cache
- 20:59:23 [melvster]
- perhaps arbitrary regex could be an attack surface too depending on who has accesss
- 21:23:51 [presbrey]
- betehess, do you know how I can parse ant style in python or php?
- 21:24:19 [presbrey]
- and javascript? :)
- 21:24:22 [betehess]
- shouldn't be difficult
- 21:24:33 [betehess]
- we'll need to define the regex grammar anyway
- 21:25:00 [betehess]
- at the end, any language should be able to compile them down to their own native regex style
- 21:26:09 [presbrey]
- at the end?
- 21:26:14 [betehess]
- http://trac.mach-ii.com/machii/wiki/ANTPatternMatcher
- 21:26:29 [betehess]
- just three wildcards
- 21:26:46 [betehess]
- having both ** and * is pretty cool
- 21:32:42 [bblfish]
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- 21:35:56 [presbrey]
- hm that does seem cool
- 21:36:22 [presbrey]
- now I wonder if he meant posix regex, perl regex, or one of the others
- 21:39:16 [presbrey]
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- 21:41:23 [deiu]
- betehess, what was your argument for avoiding 303 redirects in LDP?
- 21:41:41 [deiu]
- can you put it into one sentence? (I need it for the new spec)
- 21:43:59 [betehess]
- let me think
- 21:45:15 [presbrey]
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- 22:01:47 [betehess]
- deiu, what about something about these lines:
- 22:01:48 [betehess]
- [[
- 22:01:51 [betehess]
- 1. HTTP 303 tells an agent that the content for the requested URI is somewhere else. When combined with LDP -- where the Write operation is defined -- it makes difficult to know where to actually write.
- 22:01:51 [betehess]
- 2. hash-URIs (with http 200 for the hashless URI) makes very explicit the relationship between the RDF resource and its LDPR.
- 22:01:51 [betehess]
- Because of 1. and 2., HTTP 303 should be avoided in favor of hash-URIs.
- 22:01:52 [betehess]
- ]]
- 22:02:26 [betehess]
- my main issue is clearly "where should I write back?"
- 22:02:45 [betehess]
- and saving a round-trip
- 22:05:37 [betehess]
- makes me think that we may have a terminology issue: how do we call http://example.com/foo#bar ?
- 22:05:55 [betehess]
- .. if we say that http://example.com/foo is an LDPR
- 22:06:06 [betehess]
- http://example.com/foo#bar is an RDF resource
- 22:06:24 [betehess]
- but with RDF resource, you loose the fact that HTTP/LDP is involved
- 22:06:45 [betehess]
- or is it implied because of the http scheme for the URI?
- 22:07:47 [deiu]
- hmm
- 22:08:28 [deiu]
- Also, if you allow 303 redirects, you will have to also specify the max number of redirects at some point.
- 22:09:26 [betehess]
- right
- 22:09:46 [deiu]
- So far I think it's important to say that by using a hash URI, there is no longer the need to make the difference between the identifier (hash URI) and the document it points to.
- 22:09:50 [betehess]
- if we could avoid have to specify that :-)
- 22:09:56 [betehess]
- s/have/having/
- 22:10:16 [deiu]
- yeah, I've put this part in red (as a current ISSUE)
- 22:10:31 [betehess]
- you mean: there is a difference, but the relationship is obvious?
- 22:10:35 [deiu]
- yeah
- 22:10:41 [betehess]
- yes
- 22:10:53 [betehess]
- it just makes everything easy
- 22:11:09 [deiu]
- I'll leave it like that for now then
- 22:11:40 [betehess]
- wow
- 22:12:11 [deiu]
- it's _way_ shorter than the initial one
- 22:12:15 [deiu]
- which is good
- 22:12:54 [betehess]
- by implementing my new LDP back-end, I now strongly feel the need to say that an LDPC *is* a SPARQL endpoint, where the graphs denote its LDPR
- 22:13:20 [betehess]
- (limited to SELECT, CONSTRUCT, ASK... no UPDATE)
- 22:13:55 [deiu]
- until you implement ACL
- 22:13:57 [betehess]
- that will be the best way to query the collection
- 22:14:06 [betehess]
- what would ACL change?
- 22:14:11 [deiu]
- once ACL is up and running, you also allow PUT/POST?
- 22:14:14 [deiu]
- and DELETE
- 22:14:24 [betehess]
- well, not sure how UPDATE fits there yet
- 22:14:34 [betehess]
- I'd still use my client-side API
- 22:14:39 [betehess]
- instead of SAPRQL
- 22:15:14 [betehess]
- I have DELETE, but this works at the LDPR level
- 22:15:22 [deiu]
- hmm
- 22:15:37 [betehess]
- I mean, I have all the udpate operations on LDPR, no need to go through the LDPC
- 22:15:51 [deiu]
- for me UPDATE/DELETE implies having a basic ACL running
- 22:15:55 [betehess]
- sure
- 22:16:08 [betehess]
- but for now, I'm just focused on the bacj-end
- 22:16:20 [betehess]
- ACLs will come later
- 22:17:47 [deiu]
- well, if you could store the identity of the user requesting the creation the LDPC/R (through a WebID-TLS auth), you can at least support UPDATE/DELETE for that user
- 22:18:02 [deiu]
- that's why I'm trying to push the idea of ldp:Owner
- 22:18:05 [betehess]
- I'd need a little ACL engine
- 22:18:35 [deiu]
- yeah, but it's a basic match for the LDPC/R owner :-)
- 22:19:53 [betehess]
- to be honest, I don't need ACLs in my app for now
- 22:21:39 [deiu]
- I need a minimal ACL engine, at least supporting ownership
- 22:22:08 [deiu]
- to separate applications storing stuff on the LDP back-end
- 23:09:19 [deiu]
- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID/raw-file/tip/spec/identity-respec.html
- 23:09:31 [deiu]
- this is the first draft
- 23:10:40 [deiu]
- time to go home
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