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11:44:16 <dickson.freenode.net> topic is: Decentralized Information Group @ MIT http://dig.csail.mit.edu/
11:44:16 <dickson.freenode.net> Users on #dig: DIGlogger RalphS bblfish Sebastien-L cheater slvrbckt mattl melvster bergi sandro ericP betehess daniel-s1ith presbrey Yudai
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14:42:12 <bblfish> hi anyone here?
14:42:42 <bblfish> @Sebastien-L had an interesting question with regard to WebAccessControl
14:43:55 <bblfish> Currently when we do a GET on a resource we can find out in the Allow what other methods are allowed on the resource
14:44:45 <bblfish> Sebastien-L, wants to show an ACL editing button, but only if the user has write access to the acl
14:45:18 <bblfish> but he wanted to avoid doing an extra GET on the acl to see if he has Control access
14:46:27 <bblfish> ( which reminds me that I have not implemented Control correctly )
14:47:16 <bblfish> I drew up a mapping between WAC and HTTP verbs https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebAccessControl#WAC_relation_to_HTTP_Verbs
14:47:28 <bblfish> and there is no easy way to fit CONTROL in there.
14:52:47 <bblfish> Still I suppse: one rule would be: one should not SHOW the acl if the user does not have READ permission on it.
14:53:27 <bblfish> That should do. If he wants to see it, then the view should tell him if he can edit it...
15:00:38 <deiu> also, it would be great if you could disable authentication for publicly readable/writable resources, since you're going to read the ACL policy before responding to the HTTP request
15:00:52 <deiu> that would help with privacy
15:01:27 <bblfish> but then a user who did not have read permission would not know what the resource was to which he should go to authenticate.
15:02:18 <bblfish> oops deiu, just saw your two lines there
15:03:03 <Sebastien-L> deiu, hello, normally in rww play i think the public resources doesn't ask for a cert
15:03:04 <bblfish> well on rww-play we don't ask the user to authenticate on publicly readable resource
15:03:23 <deiu> hey 
15:03:39 <deiu> btw, I'm working on a new WebID auth protocol that doesn't involve client certs anymore
15:04:04 <deiu> I'll give more details once I make sure it's safe enough
15:04:05 <Sebastien-L> the created card is now public (to make auth possible on other services) and it is accessible in read
15:04:12 <Sebastien-L> ok
15:04:47 <bblfish> ok, good luck. Btw, I posted a couple of items to the WebID mailing list on improvemetns to TLS that could come up...
15:04:52 <Sebastien-L> deiu, don't you think instead of the Allow header returning http verbs it could be nice to have a header to give us the WAC modes available on a resource, according to the agent
15:05:37 <Sebastien-L> it would then be possible if we have Control access on ACL, because the problem is that it can't be deducted from the http verbs of the current resource and needs an extra fetch
15:05:45 <deiu> returning the WAC modes should only happen if the user has authenticated
15:05:57 <deiu> btw, I'm in a call now, so can't talk much :(
15:06:29 <Sebastien-L> we often want to know if we have control access, without necessarily the need to know the content of the acl file, so an extra fetch could be avoided
15:07:05 <Sebastien-L> deiu, I think the WAC modes should be returned even if the user hasn't authenticated. We then return the public WAC modes available
15:07:38 <Sebastien-L> for exemple a webid card generally needs to be public (so that the public key is available for auth)
15:07:44 <Sebastien-L> while the owner has read/write access
15:08:02 <deiu> yeah, it's ok if you're just returning public modes
15:08:09 <Sebastien-L> so if some agent (potentially the card ownre) try to access the card without auth he would get READ
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15:08:22 <Sebastien-L> and if the owner ask with auth he would get READ WRITE
15:08:27 <djweitzner> hi all
15:08:30 <Sebastien-L> if someone else ask with auth he would get READ
15:08:31 <Sebastien-L> hi
15:09:00 <Sebastien-L> yes deiu of course, we return the modes that apply to the current agent
15:09:00 <bblfish> Sebastien-L: the tricky thing is that we want to avoid repeating all the Allow: headers all over again.
15:09:14 <djweitzner> DIG weekly meeting starting
15:09:14 <deiu> Sebastien-L, bblfish: we're going to use the channel for a meeting now
15:09:14 <Sebastien-L> why
15:09:36 <Sebastien-L> ok
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15:09:57 <deiu> http://cimba.co - the Web app
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15:24:16 <bblfish> deiu: here's an output on a public resource
15:24:24 <bblfish> $ curl -k -I -H "Accept: text/turtle"  https://bblfish.stample.io/card
15:24:24 <bblfish> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
15:24:24 <bblfish> Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *
15:24:26 <bblfish> Allow: GET, HEAD
15:24:28 <bblfish> Content-Type: text/turtle
15:24:30 <bblfish> Accept-Patch: application/sparql-update
15:24:32 <bblfish> Link: <http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp#Resource>; rel=type
15:25:06 <bblfish> mhh missing the acl link...
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15:41:26 <bblfish> ... tried logging into cimpa.co with my bblfish.net webid. It asked for certificate but then said "Authentication failed"
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16:33:46 <bblfish> I added https://github.com/stample/rww-play/issues/112, implement wac:Control
16:34:18 <bblfish> but this makes me realise there is a problem with that. It does not allow me to specify that I want the acl to be readable, but not writeable 
16:36:21 <bblfish> and this is in fact I believe very useful: such as when I want people to know that to comment somewhere they have to have been part of some group, say the dig:Group
16:36:56 <bblfish> then people would know they have to instrive at MIT to be able to participate.
16:41:07 <bblfish> I am not sure Control is needed. An acl file can just use itself as an acl file, by having a Link: <> rel=acl
16:49:50 <deiu> bblfish: indeed, that's how I use it on rww.io
16:50:21 <deiu> the policy for the acl file is defined in the same file
16:59:00 <bblfish> I think I probably do that too.
16:59:03 <bblfish> let me check...
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18:18:51 <Sebastien-L> bblfish, I can log to deiu 's cymba service with my rww-play webid
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18:21:47 <Sebastien-L> but deiu the "verify your webid" code doesn't seem to work fine for me
18:24:42 <bblfish> ( We had a few upgrages do rww-play, but the code on auth was not affected )
18:25:13 <bblfish> so I was able to test it and indeed you can access my acl because it is written in the file. See curl -i -k  https://bblfish.stample.io/card.acl
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18:25:34 <bblfish> so the details of the reasoning is here: https://github.com/stample/rww-play/issues/112
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18:29:13 <bblfish> Sebastien-L, deiu: I think it could be that deiu is not comparing the modulus character by character, and that my bblfish.net one is all upercase, while the stample one is lower case
18:29:20 <bblfish> s/not//
18:29:29 <bblfish> "he is comparing it char by char"
18:29:57 <bblfish> the modulus should be turned into a big integer in hex mode, then compared
18:30:49 <bblfish> ok, so I think I have come to the conclusion that wac:Control is now well thought through. I give reasons here https://github.com/stample/rww-play/issues/112
18:30:55 <bblfish> and I'll post it to the wiki
18:36:31 <deiu> bblfish: I'm using sparql to compare modulus
18:36:49 <bblfish> yes, SPARQL are often bad at hex comparison
18:36:56 <bblfish> it says so in the spec :-)
18:37:04 <bblfish> WebID-TLS spec
18:37:52 <bblfish> I wrote an algorithm out for people with faulty SPARQL
18:37:56 <bblfish> in the spec too
18:40:10 <bblfish> Ok I updated the WAC wiki https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=WebAccessControl&diff=72354&oldid=72351
18:40:51 <bblfish> deiu: Sebastien-L solved the problem with how to get the header info. I think he's about to publish it
18:41:00 <bblfish> in rdflib.js
18:42:12 <deiu> Nice
18:42:20 <deiu> you may have to expose some headers on your server too btw
18:44:26 <bblfish> which ones?
18:44:59 <bblfish> deiu
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18:47:41 <bblfish> hehe deiu, Sebastien-L has allready opened an issue of rww-play integration with cymba https://github.com/stample/rww-play/issues/113
18:47:52 <bblfish> ok, I have to go back to Fontainebleau
18:47:58 <deiu> Great
18:48:10 <deiu> I'm really busy with some travel arrangements 
18:48:14 <deiu> we'll talk more soon
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21:19:50 <bblfish_> DIGlogger, pointer?
21:19:50 <bblfish_> See http://dig.csail.mit.edu/irc/dig/2014-03-13#T21-19-50
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