IRC log of dig on 2008-05-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

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15:05:25 [sandro__]
sandro__ is now known as sandro
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17:57:37 [oshani]
lkagal, just to let you know Ian Jacobi is here
17:57:45 [lkagal]
Thanks Oshani
18:20:26 [DanC]
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18:32:13 [lkagal]
Reminder: DIG meeting starting now
18:32:47 [lkagal]
Yosi ?
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18:37:52 [DanC]
<DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
18:37:53 [DanC]
<Zakim> DIG_weekly()2:30PM has not yet started, DanC
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18:39:13 [DanC]
hmm... looks like the main thing on today's agenda is a presentation; attending those remotely is kinda tricky.
18:39:24 [lkagal]
Dan, could you try calling now ?
18:39:41 [Pipian]
URL for the presentation is http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/Talks/0505-taac-ij/taac_presentation.html
18:40:37 [DanC]
ah... nice accessible presentation materials. http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/Talks/0505-taac-ij/taac_presentation.html
18:43:07 [sandro]
Ian: it's no an HTTP proxy, it's a mod-python filter that sits in the middle
19:03:43 [DanC]
I'm googling around, trying to find the state-of-the-art in automated clients with OpenID, and it seems to be: don't.
19:04:06 [DanC]
:-/
19:09:43 [DanC]
'slife (re demo)
19:11:28 [timbl]
http://www.pipian.com/rdf/tami/foaf.rdf
19:12:15 [timbl]
http://www.pipian.com/rdf/tami/foaf.rdf#georgeWBush
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19:19:08 [DanC]
are there RIF tools to play with, yet, sandro?
19:21:49 [sandro]
no
19:22:03 [sandro]
but it's becoming a high priority for me.
19:33:13 [sandro]
"http://example.com"^^rif:iri is a valid name for a predicate, for instance. that's use?
19:34:42 [sandro]
(sorry -- wrong channel)
19:35:42 [DanC]
(what's the right channel?)
19:36:10 [sandro]
(the right channel is private messages to you, DanC, that were being dropped anyway. :-)
19:36:43 [sandro]
(re-xmit) DanC, re your RIF e-mail, can you think of a test case? I can't quite connect use-vs-mention to running-code in my head.
19:37:01 [DanC]
the RIF document gives "http://example.com"^^rif:iri as a synonym for <http://www.w3.org/2007/rif>
19:37:49 [sandro]
right.
19:38:01 [DanC]
no, I don't think the problem I'm talking about is observable in RIF tests: you can't put a datatyped constant in the syntactic slot where a predicate goes
19:38:12 [DanC]
but that's what it *looks* like you're doing
19:38:47 [DanC]
for example: And("cpt:perishable"^^rif:iri(?item) ...
19:38:59 [DanC]
I'd expect And(cpt:perishable(?item) ...
19:39:40 [lkagal]
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19:39:41 [sandro]
Right -- RIF doesn't treat URIs differently from datatypes. just like xs:int maps from "1" to the one, rif:iri maps from "http://www.w3.org/" to the w3c's home page.
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19:40:48 [DanC]
weird. so the normal use of an IRI involves a level-breaker like log:uri?
19:41:35 [sandro]
The use of qnames/curies in the latest draft is broken, though. We've been fighting viciously over it, and I think we'll have a resolution tomorrow. It will end up with And(cpt:perishable(?item)) which is syntactic sugar for And("http://example.com/cpt#perishable"^^rif:iri(?item))
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19:43:10 [DanC]
is the predicate spot in RIF an expression?
19:43:26 [DanC]
i.e. can you write And( composition(f, g)(x) ... ?
19:44:25 [DanC]
this might be less complicated if we look at something other than predicate syntax... e.g. arg values...
19:44:27 [DanC]
cpt:author->"auth:rifwg"^^rif:iri
19:44:39 [DanC]
as in "cpt:book"^^rif:iri(cpt:author->"auth:rifwg"^^rif:iri
19:45:13 [DanC]
anyway...
19:45:23 [DanC]
And(cpt:perishable(?item))
19:45:42 [DanC]
^that's what I'd expect... having it be syntactic sugar for log:uri seems wierd, but not wrong.
19:45:55 [sandro]
Um -- no, th predicate spot in *BLD* is not an expression.
19:46:48 [sandro]
re log:uri -- I guess, but that "level breaker" (rif:iri) is not a predicate -- it's not accessible in the language. It's just part of the syntax of the language.
19:47:20 [sandro]
(not any more than xsd:int is. which maybe can be, some day, but isn't in the semantics of BLD.)
19:49:42 [DanC]
hmm... there's no short-hand for integers, either, is there?
19:49:48 [DanC]
I guess it makes more sense to me now
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19:51:23 [DanC]
the draft is pretty careful to make sure the ascii syntax is not sufficiently well specified nor aesthetic that anyone would actually use it. 1/2 ;-)
19:51:35 [DanC]
"The compact URI notation is not part of the RIF-BLD syntax."
19:53:05 [sandro]
That's kind of what people are getting bloody over now, two editors vs two editors. The WG wants the Presentation Syntax to be better specified and more aesthetic, but (1) some of the editors don't, and (2) we're kind of out of time.
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